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Joined: Mar 2007
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Lunker
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I was getting some 5inch gsf for my 30 gallon on the patio and I brought this home. Less colorful than the other gsf's. Is this a female?
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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My guess is it has some bluegill in it, which is whay it is not as colorful as a straight greenie. See the dark spot on the soft dorsal fin? That's one of the indicators of a bluegill.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Cecil nailed it. Dark spot and mouth size indicate some significant bluegill lineage.
BG X GS maybe?
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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It's so brown, I would have guessed Warmouth. Can you do a spine count on the anal and dorsal fins, Keith?
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling
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Guys I don't know. It looks to have some BG and GSF but sure looks like some other stuff mixed in. That pattern is different. GSF also have that dorsal spot. How big is the fish. Here is a GSF.
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Originally posted by ewest: Guys I don't know. It looks to have some BG and GSF but sure looks like some other stuff mixed in. That pattern is different. GSF also have that dorsal spot. How big is the fish. Here is a GSF.
Oops! But I still concur with Bruce. Too small of a mouth to be just a greenie or even have some warmouth in it. Warmouth have big mouths like greenies too don't they? Aren't the gill rakers different in bluegills than the other two species also? Seems like if it has gillrakers similar to a bluegill it might also show it is part bluegill.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Lunker
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It does have a peculiar coloring for a BG GSF mix. It is definitely a mix. Looks more like warmouth. Do they interbreed easily like GSF?
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I don't think it is a BGxGSF. I think there is some other sunfish mix in this fish. The prominent white side body markings with the slight amount of emerald cheek streaks should tell us something, but I do not know the TX sunfishes well enough acurately predict the lineage.
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I haven't caught a pumkinseed at the pond I got this one but this is a pic from some of my stocker fish for my pond and the markings are similar and colors so I'm going to say the first sunfish is a greenXpumkinseed. Look at this pic and then look at the original. What do you think?
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Lunker
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That was my 1st inclination was pumpkinseed in there, but far more experienced folks than me indicated BG. May be one of Theo's 263 million chromosome possibilities with 3 sunfish species.
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I checked a couple sources and pumpkinseed's are not native to Texas. Anyone know differently ? They are more of a north and east coast fish.
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Can GSF have any red markings on their ear tab, or is that trait limited more to Pumpkinseeds and RES?
"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."
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Kieth's fish in the first photo do posess similar body markings of a pumpkinseed. That is close to what I was looking for. Kieth's fish also has a few streaks on cheeks similar to ewests photo. Some GSF can have a weak rose to slight orange color on the back side of the gill flap, but never red as in ewest's pumpkinseed photo.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Ok, so is a longear and a pumkinseed the same thing? I deffinately stocked some pure pumkinseed and some that are very long eared but a little more drap, then some that are very bright red brested but those pointed me back to the pumkinseed. I've wanted to get more of them because when I have caught them they are very aggresive and they eat snails and they are very pretty. I know they don't get to be the biggest but they get to be 8 inches pretty often from what I've seen. When I was stocking my pond I was using a trap and a typical catch was 8bg, 2gsf and one ps and at the end i was throwing back the others and trying to get a couple of more ps. I'll try to get another pic of a Texas PS. They are at Richland College in Richardson Texas.
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Lunker
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Keith, Picture 1 and 2 appear to be BG. Not sure what you have there in pic #3, but you can easily recognize a longear. They have the cahracteristic long "ear", and the males have the bluish color with gaudy red breast: http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/images/jpegs/longearsun.jpg
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Keith tell us what types of sunfish are in the pond and for how long. From this thread it sounds like BG , LES , RBS , GSF , PS. Is that right. What about RES ? All of these can cross. It sounds like a virtual sunfish (lepomis) cornucopia. Most look to have a lot of BG genes except the very first ones which may have some but not as much as the others. There are definitely other lepomis genes in there in addition to BG.
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I would like to throw out the idea that it might be a redspotted sunfish x bluegill cross. I have collected redspotted sunfish on a few occasions and when I saw the picture they immediately came to mind. They are also native to your area. Here are links to a couple of pictures: http://www.samford.edu/schools/artsci/biology/vertzoo2.htm http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.asp?speciesID=391 http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?ID=60775&what=species Note the orange on the ear tab. The third picture is a male in breeding color, which is why the spots are so bright. Most redspotted sunfish that I have seen are colored similarly to the picture that you have (minus the dark spot on the dorsal fin and a couple other characteristics that make me think your fish is crossed with a bluegill).
Every person should have an interest in life - I think I'll go fishing. ~ Thoreau
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Guys again I want to encourage you to learn to use Wisc Fish. http://www.wiscfish.org/fishid/frames.aspx They do not have all the southern fish (RES) but there are some lepomis crosses. The links will not post but go to the above address - pick out one of the lepomis from the chart - when you get to that page in the bottom right will be a pic of crosses - click on the pic and see the other pics from the side menu. LE X GSF 3 way PS x WM PS X GSF PS X BG
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The ones I don't know if I have or not are RES:)I put some in with red ears but the looked like the pumkinseed cross but yes, I put in a bunch of different types. The pond used to dry out every other year so we had it dug bigger and deeper to 12 ft and it's probably 1/4 acre from my bad math, maybe a little smaller. It just filled over the winter and I fertilized and had a algae bloom. I caught all the fish in traps and with hook and bread. I probably put 50-100 yoy's of all different types from the minnow trap then I used a bigger perch trap and took a total of atleast 150-200 adults from 3 inches and greater. There a few big gsf, several big bgs, and some that were bright red like cherry perch, then the little fat bodied slippery colorful pumkinseeds. They are like handling a wet pumkinseed and they are crazy. Some had real long ears. I would say the percentages are somewhere around 80% bg or cnbg not sure then the other 20% is made up of gsf, ps, londear, red ones with red eyes??? and various hybrids that I'm not sure of. I also stocked like 150 gambusias but yesterday I couldn't see any. I wonder if they all got eaten. Hope not. I will need to add bass later for population controll but I want big sunfish of all different types for food and fun.
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2 new ps for my pond
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Lunker
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Keith, when you describe one with the VERY long eartab and bright red, it is actually a redbrest. They have a longer eartab than a longear, and are absolutely stunning in color. Post a pic if you catch one.
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