Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Controversial Observation Bream/Sunfish popularity

Controversial Observation Bream/Sunfish popularity

I know I will be killed on this subject due to all of the bream/sunfish/bluegill folks out here but I am a person who finds the differences between areas in this country refreshing and very interesting.

That being said, To me it’s interesting to see such passion about Sunfish. Up here in the North East I would dare say that a good majority think of Bream/Sunfish/Bluegill as a pest fish at best and an unwelcome addition to any body of water in general. I know many pond owners locally that spend hours trying to eradicate this pest fish out of their pond so that their desired species can flourish. Those that do keep the gills in the pond usually have the pond for grandkids or little ones to fish in because of the ease of catching the gills.

While I can appreciate the challenge in growing out some major sized gills, I must admit that I am amongst the folks that spend time making sure that my pond is not contaminated with them. (Boy I am going to get flack on that comment) :rolleyes:

So why am I starting this tread? I am not trying to get people angry. I am more trying to understand the differences in what drives one group of folks to have passion about a species of fish while many others think of them as pests.

Is it the ease of catching them? Is it the taste of gills? Is it the hardiness of the species? …etc?


I just thought I would start a thread that explores why some love them and some hate them. Maybe we can explore other species as well and maybe as we learn where the passions come from some of us may try something new.

Answer: Catch a "gill", fry in real butter, salt and pepper lightly, and eat it... Plus, if I get rid of all my "pest" fish, what do my LMB and CC cat eat from now on? Too many 'pest' fish? Stock more LMB for a season, eh? If the Yellow-Bellied-Finless-Sap-Sucker tasted as good and fed my Bass as well as BG, I'd have a pond full of them also! It's not about types of fish as it is fishery management and what works best. The up-side with a particularly large BG is the slab of meat you get for dinner now and then.

I don't consider them a pesty fish.

However, they don't excite me too much like they do for others on the forum here.

A lot of people only experience gillies that are undersize due to over population. Never knowing that they can be more.

Thanks and interesting views. I have caught many a slab Gill in Northern lakes in Canada. And for me the lack of fight and the tendancy to swallow the hook as well as the fact that you have to fight through them to get to the walleyes and other fish have jaded me against them.

The funny thing is that if I consider my favorite fish to catch ( Walleye ) The fight per pound is not there for them, but the taste is the best. I also think its has something to do with how easy it is to catch the fish. Walleyes are tougher to get and like all things in life the chase tends to be the best memory or part of the dance. Thats why gills for me just dont cut it.

I just had some walleye last night. Real good!

Eric - Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled BG yearning to grow to 10" or wind up in my deep fryer trying.

It's all about taste, fight, fishing inertia (BG are what Granpappy fished for), and personality (the humble BG is Everyman). And if you set a proper slot limit (with or without sexing), you can't pull too many BG out of a pond.

P.S. There's nothing wrong with catching and eating Walleye (I love them too), but they are far from being a limitless supply pond fish.

Everywhere I go, people (especially biologists) think "in a box." In upstate New York the "box" is: 1) bluegill are a nuisance. 2) Largemouth bass won't grow larger than six pounds. There are more "box" thinking issues, but for this discussion, I'll leave it there.
Here's why people in the north look at bluegills as a nuisance. (Fact: Largemouth bass eat bluegills. Bluegills are the backbone of the largemouth bass food chain, world wide.) A 12 inch bass in the south is about a year and a half old. A twelve inch bass in upstate New York is four years old, maybe five years old. In the North, a six pound bass is at least ten years old, maybe older. In the south, a six pound bass could be three years old, maybe four, in a normal environment.
Bluegills in the south spawn three, four or five times a year, often starting in late winter, during butterfly warm days of late January or February. Then, they spawn again in the spring, again in the summer, and often one more time in fall. That means lots of baby bluegill, often, which leads to conditioned bass feeding, often.
In upstate New York, bluegill spawn once...in late June or July.
Here's where it gets funny. There are about 115 "perfect" bass growing days in upstate New York. Those days start in late May, and go straight through into early September. There are about 115 "perfect" bass growing days in the south, spread out from February to late November. Hot summer days are not "perfect" days for bass.
In upstate New York, bluegill, as a population, grow much faster than bass. You would think it wouldn't be that way, but it is. Bass feed on young yellow perch in spring, and when bluegill begin to spawn, there is heavy vegetation growth, good blooms..."perfect" situations for fast bluegill growth. In the north, the climate and many environments are more conducive to bluegill than bass. Bluegill feed actively during most months, even under the ice. Bass aren't "dormant", but they are sluggish under the ice. Advantage bluegill. In the south, bluegill can grow for most of the year, and spawn often. But, the bass there can also feed heavily for most of the year. Advantage bass.
In the north, small average size bass which are older, simply cannot feed as actively on intermediate size bluegill. Once a bluegill reaches three and a half inches, most bass in the system are too small to eat that size bluegill. Over several years, bluegill gain an advantage in northern ponds. But, once a pond reaches its fourth year in the north, the advantage shifts toward bass. By the sixth year, most northern ponds have lots of semi-adult bluegill and a fair number of one and a half pound bass.

Eric, what better choice in forage fish do we have? we are kind of stuck with each other - best I can tell.

Additionally, big BG make for great eating!

Eric,

A little East Texas perspective on your interesting post....

I remember a great post that Norm started many months ago asking what folks consider a trash fish. My answer then and now is that there is no such thing as a trash fish...fish simply do what they are programed to do within the environment they are placed.

You like a challenge as evidenced by your comment "like all things in life the chase tends to be the best memory or part of the dance". I strongly agree with your comment, but don't agree that big trophy BG's are easy to catch. Sure, you can catch hundreds of BG at a fish feeder using a pellet fly and they will swallow the hook as you mentioned...but those are not trophy BG's.

IMO, few fish, including the great salt water flats fish, are as challenging to catch as the trophy BG. I love to try for them and in all my years of trying I have caught only one true trophy BG, a fish estimated at 13 inches.

You are welcome any time you are in the East Texas area to try your hand at catching a trophy BG from one of my ponds...I promise you, it won't be easy and to be successful will require every angling skill you can muster...plus a lot of luck.

Meadowlark, Thanks for the perspective. Now this may sound a little like a brag and truthfully it is so far from that. But in the lake I fish up in Canada I catch on average 6 to 12 12 - 14 inch (most are 12) gills a day while trolling for walleye at 25 ft deep near the rock drop offs or weedlines. We also get many many many in the 8-11 inch range while trolling. We throw those back and curse because they stripped the worm off the rig while trying to get down to the walleyes. This lake also produces on average 18-24 inch SMB. I can average 5 of those a day as well. What I do have problems with are Walleye over 26 inches long. Now if I went to Lake Erie I would be catching those like crazy.


I agree that catching trophy fish is very hard to do and I enjoy the challange in doing so. I also can see that catching a 13 inch gill in a pond is a challange.

I do appreciate the comments back, I am getting more of a flavor what makes someone like a certain type of fish. I almost think it could be a desire to catch what is rare in your part or your pond/lake.

P.S. I may take you up on your offer someday if I am able to get down your way. My wife gave me the go ahead to go the the PB convention but it was a bit too late for me to find time off from work.

Eric,

I think the climate accounts for our preferences. If I could grow walleye or YP down South, I'm sure my biases would be somewhat different.

Also, keep in mind that BG get big, and fight hard down South. They are one of the most versatile of fish.

I never met a sport fish I didn't like.

Interesting view as well Bobad. I am sure it does have a bit to do with the climate.

If I were to pick my top fish of all time to catch and or stock it would be Muskey. The pure power and challange to catch it makes it the ideal fish.

I also tend not to eat the fish I catch. I do more of a catch and release method. Thus taste is less of a driving force and challange is the largest thing for me when selecting a fish. Quickly followed by fight.

I'll take eyes any day I can get 'em. However, where I'm at, it's at least a 45 minute drive for that, and it's seasonal at best.

However, I can walk to my own pond or drive 10-15 mins any direction and find decent gills. I can spend an hour or so by myself or with a buddy tracking down BIG gills, or take a little kid and catch whatever's biting. (Can't wait til my own 6 month old Grandson can fish!)

I can eat what I catch, or use them for bait for big cats, or garden fertilizer if they're tiny. They just work for me in so many ways.

I admit, at times they can be a pest if they're plentiful but small. However, I've never tired of catching the dang things...

I have never eaten a bluegill. If they are big enough to eat I want them for spawning. To an awful lot of us, they are a means to 2 ends. Forage and fun fishing.

I really enjoy fishing for them in my ponds and consider them anything but pests. Fly fishing is more fun but a small hook and a piece of night crawler is my usual way.

However, I have never fished for them on public waters. That's where I go (or used to go) for LMB and white bass. I doubt that I would know how to fish for them in public waters.

To add to this mix is the biology of the available fish wrt location.

BG do well north to south but have different specie profiles as noted by Bob. In general they live longer, grow slower and tend to stunt more the further north you go.

YP and eyes have limited range wrt location. Nether do well in the deep south including most of Texas in any waters . Eyes in general are not an optimum pond fish even up north. YP do better in ponds but not in southern LMB ponds because of temps and activity levels of LMB (YP can't withstand southern pond temps or serious year round LMB predation).

Ponds are different than big lakes wrt fish. In most ponds BG are the forage backbone. That is not the case in large lakes where , depending on location, YP , the Shad clan or both are the major forage. BG are included in that mix but do not dominate large lakes like they do ponds.

As a result YP and eyes are not an option in much of the country and not the best option in most ponds.

Add to that the fact that trout are an available option in NE and not so in the south except in a few limited circumstances.

I would say most of the differences in opinion are a result of available options which are limited by biology based on location. Another example of latitudinal limitation.

BTW Eric's comments are IIRC expressed policy of at least one maybe more NE states which have restrictions on stocking BG.

Interesting views.

Another thought here, Could the passion be driven from what we first caught when we were kids??? My first fish were YP and Walleyes and Crappie. I think I still have a soft spot in my heart for all of them. Primarily because of the memories of fishing for them with my Dad.


Eric Interesting you bring up trout. Being from the NE you would expect that I love trout fishing. We used to have the nations largest trout derby 200 yards from my house. I simply can't stand trout fishing. I can't explain why but its not my style of fishing and I get tired of it easily. Interesting in observing my biases even within my own zone.

I had heard that some NE states had stocking restrictions on Gills but don't know which ones. I know NY is not one of them (at least not upstate).

Eric:

I hope you're wrong on that one...first fish I ever caught was a 1 lb bullhead.

Matt, Sorry to hear that lol. Although some love the bullheads and I can see many on the shore on my ride home daily getting the spring run of he bullheads. Best time of year for them and best meat then!! All I can say is thank God my first fish/experience wasn't with a Lampre Eel !!

Eric...first fish being ANY type of eel, and I'd probably not want to fish any more...

Yanks don't like catfish or blackeyed pees either. But who really cares They both taste great.

Catfish are yummy if they are done right!!!

I love fish. I love observing them. I love catching them. I love eating them.

I've lived way up north, and I've lived in the south. I now live kind of in the middle.

If any fish is consistent for fun of catching and for an incredible meal, it has to be the bluegill.

I like lots of other fish too. Nothing better for eating than either walleye or striped bass. Perch are pretty good. Well, trout and salmon, and how about "lawyers" (turbot) . . .

Nothing fights harder than a musky or a northern, except maybe . . .

But, in a properly managed lake or pond, or especially in a great river, the bluegill is a real prize. A 10 or 11-inch bluegill with nearly every cast on a flyrod or an ultra-light is so much fun it should be illegal.

Those same 11-inch bluegills take about 45 seconds to fillet and skin. Batter those fillets, fry them up, and there is nothing better.

I'm already drooling. There are three 10-inchers in my fish cage waiting for Friday night dinner.

Eric, I think you're on to something, WRT being weined on certain fish. I grew up on BG and channels, and still love to fish for them. Crappie only occasionally, as we, as a family, didnt have the cash for large rigs to go to reservoirs, and fish deep water. Oxbow spawning, was our experiences.
I hope the ole stripermeister, George, chimes in. He admits to thinking of gills as only forage, until recently. He has sure put up pics of CNBG with big shoulders lately.
BTW, I yearn to find a way for YP to be raised in the South. Never had Walleye, but know it is revered.

Eric,

12 to 14 inch bluegills! No offense but are you sure you're not estimating them at 12 to 14 inches? I'll give you a free mount of a any fish caught up there for a pic of a 14 inch gill next to a tape measure! Just the cost of the material for one over 12 inches. Is it a deal?

I have a friend in Idaho that tells me when the locals catch walleyes in a nearby river they chuck them up on the bank! They call them squaw fish which is not even the same species. And he says these are real dandies too in the 10 lb. plus range!