Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond Situation.

Well here is the latest Zephyr Pond situation. I noticed about a hundred BG, all about 5 to 6 inches, swimming and eating pellets. I have never caught a LMB weighing between 1 pound and 4 pounds. I have caught and removed around 75 or so LMB between 6 and 11 inches. I have caught a 4 pounder and a 6 pounder. I released the 4 pounder. Tried to release 6 pounder but he didn't survive. I still see bass in the 6 inch to 11 inch range in the pond. I have lot's of nice CC and caught an 8 pounder last week on a crank bait. All my gambusias have disapeared. Why don't I have any bass in the 1lb to 4lb range? What happened to all my gams? What adjustments do I need to make? By the way Zephyr pond has filled some after nice rains, but has a ways to go.

How old is the pond?

How long have you had it?

What sort of fish were you catching last year?

What is the general body condition of the 10 and 11 inch LMB?

Not really sure how old the pond is but would expect it to be between 8 and 10 years old. We have had it about a year and a half. It was full (approx 2 acres0 when we got it and then with drought, it went to about to about 3/4 of an acre, without any fish die offs. We aerated last summer. Last year was when I took most of the small LMBs out. Caught some nice catfish in the 2 to 8 lbs range last year. Didn't catch the larger bass until late last summer. The body conditon of the 10 to 11 inchers looked good. We also had put in tilapia last year.

SWAG on the available info.

LMB 8-11 in.
couple of large LMB.
BG 5in.>
few BG < 5in.
CC yes - some big
Starting to sound familiar. More.
low water
no gams/minnows
? any BG or LMB recruitment.

Sure sounds like a LMB crowded situation to me. The low water would add to the problem. The LMB can't get over the 11-12 gap because of food shortage. So you see few if any 2-4 lb. LMB. One or 2 do and they get big. Between the small LMB and CC most forage under 4 in. is gone all the way down to the gams. There are a number of ways to address this if the problem is what I described. Use small lures or crickets or worms to catch some small LMB. A seine survey would help establish for sure what the situation is. Adding some adult BG may be an option. Do you feed the fish? I assume no. Fixing this takes time unless you shock/take out a bunch of small LMB and add a bunch of adult BG and or other forage.

Did the tilapia die off? What size did you put in and how many? Did you see any big tilapia?

The tilapia appeared to have all died. I put in 50 lbs of adult size tilapia. Do you think the BG will reproduce sufficient number of off spring to help with forage? Last year I put in around 400 BG in the 4 to six inch size, as well as 50 RES. I do feed when I'm there but not daily. Do I need to take out a bunch of CC?

I think ewest is on the right track.

If you have high density of small LMB, then your density could shoot even higher after this spring's spawn.

In any pond over 1 acre I'm always confortable with pressuring 9-11 inch LMB pretty hard. Especially if the goal is a fishery with good numbers of 2-3 pounders. That's where Bob Lusk's pond is right now, with excellent population of 2+ pound largemouth--which is really good fishing by the way.

Ironically, your pond is very possibly "in balance" already if your goal is big bluegill.

Either way my personal preference is to limit the number of CC, but that's just me. They're fun to watch and put up a good fight, but they occupy a lot of usable water, if you know what I mean.

I think I will attempt to take more CCs out. My wife has named most of them, so it maybe a hard choice of which ones to eat. I think we will have to keep Whitey though. What about adding more tilapia again this year?

Bruce, he's in Texiz. His goal could not possibly be large bluegills. It's bass, baby, bass.

Bud, you stocked tilapia pretty heavily last year and we had a heckuva drought. Thus no reason for bass predation on their YOY. It really sounds like you are missing some age classes due to bass predation before you got the place. I think I would probably stock tilapia again at 10 lbs per acre and then come back with some bluegills. Keep hammerin the small bass. You can't possibly catch them all.

BTW, as usual, I could be all wet on my analysis. I often am.

I agree with Bruce wrt the CCs. A few are nice, but to me, the larger they get the more biomass they take-up. I personally would rather free up that biomass for more slot LMB and larger bluegill. I suppose it all depends on your personal goals/preferences. Since it seems like you are concerned about the lack of 2-4 lb. LMB, I would take out some of the larger CCs in addition to doing what ewest suggested.

If you're seeing 100 mid-sized BG eat, you've got more than that in there. But it might not be very many for 2 acres (???) after being pounded by crowded bass during the drought's drawdown. I like the sound of tilapia or adding adult BG this year. As noted, if you're managing like a Texan you need to keep removing small bass from the overcrowded, skinniest sizes.

Don't take out the CC your wife has named, take out the rest. If you have 100 CC and she's named 75 of them, take out the 75 she hasn't named. Note that this will probably make the rest shy, and she might only see her favorites about 1/3 as often as she thinks she should.

What about the tilapia questions above. " Did the tilapia die off? What size did you put in and how many? Did you see any big tilapia?"

It is possible for LMB to control tilapia to the extent that few yoy tilapia survive and the breeder tilapia get big. That is one common way growers raise tilapia for market. Fish farming strategies that prevent overcrowding and stunting include: 1) cage farming where eggs fall
through the mesh to the pond bottom before the female can collect them for brooding; 2) polyculture with a predator fish, such as fingerling
largemouth bass, at 400 per acre; and 3) culture of only males (monosex). All-male culture is desirable in ponds not only to prevent
overpopulation and stunting but also because males grow about twice as fast as females.


See

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/224646-280f...1d278956516706a

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/224646-283f...1d278956516706a

May want to add tilapia and adult BG. That should take some pressure off the BG and as a result aid in their turn around. I suspect if the 8-10in LMB look fat you are begining to see positive results from your last years actions.

ewest, we added fifty pounds of adult tilapia last year, which everyone thought was way too many, but they did well but all died this winter. I think we will add more tilapia and some more BGs. The pond was overcrowed when we got it and guess it will take time to manage our way out of too many small bass. Thanks to everyone for the help. Zephyr Pond is on the rise and looking better. I appreciate everyones concerns about her.

this was a great post (thread i mean) to follow.

Heybud it sounds like you are on the right track. I agree that adult tilapia and adult BG would be a good choice. Keep us posted on how it works.

Heybud,

If I can offer my 2 cents worth...you gave a great clue to what is going on in your opening paragraph when you said "my Gams have disappeared".

Baring other unknown factors, e.g. water quality issues, the only way those Gams will vanish that I know of is if you have over-predation. My thought is you have way, way too many small LMB.

If my analysis is correct, you need to remove as many as possible of the very small LMB. Stocking more BG, even adult BG, won't help that situation and neither will Tilapia. The overabundance of small LMB need to be removed, then the Gams will return, and a better balance will result...that's my 2 cents.

Meadowlark, your two cents is always welcomed and appreciated. I took out about 75 small LMB last year and hope to do better this year. I may have to enlist a group of kids to fish all day long and get as many as we can. Would adding some large LMB help with predation of the smaller LMB?

ML and Heybud I think the gams are gone because of the draught. As the water level went down and down the gams were forced to move to the new waters edge where there were no weeds or cover and where what little shallow water that existed was near deeper water.Even gams are no match for the LMB and BG in that situation.



Keep taking those LMB out and add some adult BG and tilapia. Watch the condition of the 10 - 12in LMB and when they look fat you will be close to balanced.