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My outlook: Poseidon, I think most of us have some of the same feelings. When I see any type of wildlife, I pause and watch. If I ever walk up to a deer that I have shot without a twinge of regret, I'll quit hunting.

That said, I consider myself a carnivorous predator and the top of the food chain. I hunt a lot but seldom shoot anything. At 64 yoa I'm a trophy hunter who rarely sees what he is looking for and more interested in passing on my enjoyment of the land and wildlife to my Grandsons. It's something like the fish in the pond. I'm really interested in growing the herd and hoping it stays healthy. Over the Christmas holidays, I intend to teach my Grandson how to backtrail a deer to find where it stays during the day and why it stays there. Admittedly, once we invade his home, he will move but I will have accomplished my goal. One of my greatest thrills is in seeing the results of my game camera.

Like others, I have, in the 60's, seen starving herds of deer. It was on Possum Kingdom Wildlife Refuge during an extended drought. Seeing dead and dying deer gave me my first understanding of resource management and a concern about artificial vs PROPER resource management. They were too weak to even run away. I don't mind shooting excess deer, selling off cows, neutering cats or reducing predators in the pond. It is also why I don't fertilize my water holes or use tilapia. I just don't believe in pushing the environmental envelope. Through resource management and help from most of the neighbors, I think we now have a balanced deer herd with a buck/doe ratio of about 1 to 1. Next year, we will absolutely have to take out some cull bucks. Wish I could be as proud of my drought ridden ponds.

BTW, my 8 year old Grandson/Pardner has, in the last month, taken a hog and a cull buck. He's pretty happy but didn't tell his friends about it. He feels like other kids might not understand. Prior to the hunts, we had the talks about the finality of it all and it's not like a video game. We also had the talks about blister packed meat from the grocery store and having somebody else do your killing for you. My 10 year old Grandson will never hunt because he doesn't believe in harming animals in any way. Though young, they respect each others feelings and are very close. I wish my Granddaughters enjoyed the country life. Oh well, they have chosen to be Princesses.

Poseidon, I'm glad you provide a refuge for wildlife. They do need a haven that they won't get on my land.

Sorry, this got longer than I thought it would.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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poseidon, it almost impossible for a nonhunter to understand why we hunt and then get enjoymnet out of showing the killed animal. I bowhunt and on most occasions I do not get a shot but enjoy just seeing them. However I enjoy also taking an animal that God has provided me the opportunity to hunt. It is not a macho thing (although admit some hunters might feel that way) but more spirtual. I just LOVE taking does with the bow a big buck is just a bonus. See hard to explain. I Love the fact that you Love watching them.

However some nonhunters are also antihunters and this is where I have a problem, try to not fully get on my soap box. But for them to not understand but yet try to put an end to our heritage is wrong. To call me as a hunter inhumane and cruel to animals is so far from the truth. One example here in GA we pay for the Wildlife Management Area with our stamps. Bikers, hikers, horeback riders, birdwatchers, etc. can all use this land leased or purchased by hunter dollars. They pay nothing, yet some of them get applaud if it is shut down for a weekend to allow hunting.

The anti hunting groups such as HSUS that claim to love animals spend millinos on antihunting campaigns and less than 5% on land accusations or improvements. Compare that to conservation organizations that suport hunting. They spend 100's of millions to help wildlife both gam and non game speceis. So who loves widlife more anti hunters or hunters, seems clear to me. BTW currently 9% hunters, 4% anithunters and remainder (87%)are non hunters so Posiedon you are the majority.


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I second the notion that hunters put more money into conservation than anyone. I think it's true. Also, most of us hunters are also avid animal people, we like to own pets, watch wildlife, and promote conservation (which includes maintaining healthy populations). As far as some of the so called conservation groups, unfortunately money corrupts. I have personal experience with the Humane Society here in MN. They have gotten to the point where they routinely steal peoples pets so they can "place" them in good homes. Of course their is a healthy charge to the person who wants one of these "lost" pets. So they aren't a conservation or animal loving group any more, they just want the money.


Gotta get back to fishin!
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I won't go so far to say I'm anti-hunting. I have never seen what ewest describes above, and hope I never do. I guess if I had seen it I would probably join in and help thin the herd myself. But the animals in the pictures look a long way from starving or sick. The whole point of the post was that this was the biggest healthiest buck in the forest. I would rather get years of enjoyment from watching this guy out by the pond than by shooting him.

But that's just me, and I understand that everyone doesn't feel this way. I'm just a soft hearted animal lover that doesn't have a problem buying a big T-bone at the store.

I didn't want start a battle over it, I know I'm in the minority on this one. Rather, I was just expressing my 2c, and wondering what kind of replys would result. No one can expect to change anyone else's mind on hunting. I am glad to hear y'alls side of the story.


Wish me luck.
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...and we're glad to hear yours.


And now...Back to ponds. ;\)


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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Your 2 cents is acknowledged and sincerely appreciated. My hunting doesn't end with the season. I just quit carrying a gun.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I love hunting, Poseidon, but if you don't give me any grief for that, it I'll try and keep these guys off your back.

My carrying a gun doesn't end with hunting season, I just stop shooting quadrupeds.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Poseidon, I'm always glad to meet any animal lover even if they don't hunt when they have an equally respectfull view of other's perspectives. I come from the same perspective as someone else here who said that he'd quit hunting if he stopped having a little remorse over the kill. It's hard to explain, I have a real respect for wildlife which is still there even after they are killed. Us hunters need to have enough respect not to be wasteful and appreciate what we've bagged by using it wisely. I like to eat mine.


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My father-in-law was a hardcore hunter, travelled every year, got permits and licenses to shoot whatever there was, his family ate it all, bear, elk, deer even a moose one year. On his travels he found paradise for his retirement, 80 acres up on the hill over looking the lake, one neighbor within 300 Weatherby range. He could taste the deer well before he moved there, talked about them a lot, 4 point this, 3 point that. He retired and moved on the property, never fired another round. Some how when the deer became his, he changed. He closeted the guns and broke out the binoculars, put out a salt lick and even warmed up to his wife's cat.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
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It will probably surprise you to know that I got my 11 year old a 20g shotgun for his b'day and my 8 year old is pretty good with a 22 pistol. We love to go shooting.

BZ makes sense. If you are going to eat what you shoot, I can justify that. I just know too many people who are in it for the kill, and nothing else. I just can't understand that.

I've got to give credit to this forum and all the people on it, though. I stuck my neck out with my post and this has been a very civilized discussion on an emotional subject.


Wish me luck.
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Poseidon,
I think you have hit on what makes this forum so unique. Every one is civil and, myself aside, think before they write. Good job! as we say in my neighborhood.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
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Eddie Walker and I do think alike. We both hang our trophies in a group within a shop atmosphere. The only difference is most of my trophies were likely bred in China.
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Eddie's trophies:

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My trophies:

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Yep, Poseiden...I can't hide when I'm developing a parcel named Liberty Nature Preserve. I stalk the aisles of Menards, searching out my prey, armed with a shopping cart.

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Poseidon, I know people like that who use live animals for target practice. Not for me, but I don't know of any who just cut the horns off. They usually have someone who will appreciate the meat.

I do not care for the taste of venison. I have it made into sausage and we eat it. If I really had to eat the venison, I'd probably stop hunting.

Brettski, that's a disgustingly clean work area.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I can't tell Brettski's OSB from Eddie's OSB.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Dave Davidson - the key to palatable tasting venison is to get all of the silver skin and fat off the meat before cooking it. The presence of silver skin and deer fat will give the meat a very off taste for most people. Just like a cow there are certain muscle groups that are much more tasty and tender than others. Those "other" muscle groups are better suited for the grinder and making sausage. I highly recommend butterflying the backstraps and grilling them just like steak, comments from my friends have been, "This is better than any beef I have ever eaten". There are other factors involved in palatabilty too, such as did the meat get cooled down quickly in warm weather, and did the deer hang for at least 24 hours before butchering. There are a number of factors that can affect the quality and taste of venison, if everything is done right then vensison is extremely delicious, if not done quite right then it is not near as palatable as it should be. ;\)



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a) i hope eddie's wall is built well, thats a lot of weight on there......wow

b) brettski, my God man, how do you find anything in that workshop \:D


GSF are people too!

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Brettski's workshop may be even neater than Dwight's; it certainly shows "fewer operations in progress". Although both demonstrate immeasurably higher project completion and put-way-tool percentage scores than I have achieved.

I would post a picture of one of my working areas at home, but it would end up for sale as a motivational poster at some heartless, mercenary website run by a mad scientist. Probably at an insultingly low price.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Brettski,

I showed you the wrong side of my shop. My other trophies are on this side.



Eddie

PS, the bass on the wall by the door weighed 12 pounds and I cought it at a public lake in California. It was my first bass!!!


Lake Marabou http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=139488&fpart=1

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run by a mad scientist and his family??
cool website.......b.c., i like those jigs.

i have rocks all over my work bench \:\)

great thread matt, its all over the place but full of quality \:D

edited post.......aw c'mon eddie, you can say the name of the lake, i wont mind \:\)


GSF are people too!

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Sorry,it wasn't a secret. It's called Lake Chabot in Castro Valley. It's more of a park than a great fishing spot, and I just got lucky.

I had been watching some fishing shows and wanted to try bass fishing. My buddy talkes teh talk, so I asked him to take me. He said they had been spawning at the lake and were biting.

We walked along the paved trail on the East side until he spoted some bass along the shore. They were not very far out at all, but didn't look very big to me. In fact, I thought they were small looking and wanted to go to a better spot, but he said they were big and we should fish there.

I put a black rubber worm on a hook and tossed it in over them and reeled it in. On the third cast she bit. The reel started spinning when the fish took off. It jumped a few times and really gave me a show!!!

I half reeled it in, half draged it in until she was on the shore. My buddy grabbed her and brought her out. He was totally freaked out at the size of her. I didn't know if it was big or just a decent one, but by his reactions, I started to realize it was a really good fish.

He had a scale in his tackle box and we weighed her at 12 pounds, or just a hair over. I can't swear the scale is 100% accurate, just that's what it showed.

Since I'm so into taxidermy, I already knew I wanted to get it mounted, but didn't want a skin mount. I've seen way too many skin mounts and all of them have oil issues. You just can't tan a fish skin.

I could have brought her in and had my taxidermist make a mold of her, or I could take measurements and have him order one already made. I chose to measure her, take allot of pics and throw her back.

She swam away just fine, so hopefuly she lived.

Eddie






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OMG, another incredible Eddie/Brettski coincidence! This PB forum is just WAY too spooky.
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Eddie's first bass, 12 lbs:


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Brettski's first bass, 12 lbs (without the box):


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If they sing the same songs, I quit.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Nice buck. He's definitly a buck of a lifetime and one to be proud of. Funny how wives can do that. Just like you can't build a new house without buying all new furnature.

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Wow...guess this post's been ridden seven different ways.

I've told my buddies that I don't care if I ever kill another deer. I go because, well, I always have and it's a couple of days each year that the 4 (rarely, 5) of us get together, eat breakfast, tell lies, bitch, moan and laugh.

The landowner's father is the closest thing to a dad I've ever had. His brother is a great guy, too, but they're 65 & 67. Not sure how much longer they'll keep at it, but, if necessary, I'll push their wheelchairs to a blind and put the shotguns to their shoulders.

My brother and I don't hang out, much, except during this time of the year. It's more about everything else, except the killing. This year, I was the lucky one, but each year I always hope ol man Redlinger and Gene get the big ones.

I can understand the watching part, because that's what I do 11 months and 29 days the rest of the year.

Poseidon and others...I respect your opinions and know you respect mine as well. My wife is of the same ilk. I've asked her to go, and told her I'd give up these days with "the guys" and concentrate on getting her a deer...she'll have none of it. Course, that doesn't stop her and the daughters from eating all my jerky. \:D


In a lifetime, the average driver will honk 15,250 times. My wife figures I'm due to die any day now...



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[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/Eitel/Gods_Creatures.jpg?t=1165876455[/img]

;\)

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