Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations BG ID?

I surveyed our pond yesterday evening and this morning – one cast at a time.

I was concerned over the condition of BG’s and HSB, having undergone a summer record-breaking heat wave and drought conditions.

Our pond continues some 4 ft low.

I was pleasantly surprised at the good condition of the fish – near surface water temp 65 degrees, feeding frenzy at feeders in somewhat muddy water from last week’s inch and half rain, numerous BG’s in 5 to 9 inch range, a few in 9 – 10 inch and a couple between 10 and 11 inches – largest BG, Boga’d 1# 4 ozs…..

ID on attached BG photo?
When caught was light gray color with visible vertical markings.
After an hour in aerated live well, almost white with trace of vertical markings.
Exposed to light changed immediately to color in photo.

Original stockers were Arkansas CNBG, Tyler Fish Farms CNBG, and native BG stocked by grandsons from neighbor’s pond.

Whadda ‘ya think?

Holy schmolie.

George, that bluegill is great. It still has plenty of growth potential, too. Its color suggests the fish is a male, but not yet physically mature. The bronze color of its pectoral fin suggests coppernose bluegill.

Holy, Holy Schmolie. Very nice fish George. I don't have enough experience with CNBG to call this one, but definately is a male. For those with HBG or GSF notice how the pectorial fin even when compressed of a pure BG tapers out to a long thin point.

The speed of color changes in BG is amazing. I think I will try to document that and post the results.

George did you count the anal fin rays?

Coppernose bluegill have 12 soft rays on their anal fin as opposed to 11 soft rays found on the regular bluegill. Coppernose have fewer but wider vertical bars on their sides than do regular (common or native ) bluegill. Coppernose also have orange margins to their fins. Male coppernose has a broad copper band above the eye or forehead and are prominent during spawning season.

THE FINS OF THE CNBG ARE REDDISH-ORANGE WITH A THIN WHITE MARGIN. THE TYPICAL VERTICAL BAR PATTERN OF THE BLUEGILL IS PRONOUNCED IN THE COPPERNOSE, AND VERY DISTINCTIVE. ADULT MALES HAVE A BROAD COPPER BAND ACROSS THE HEAD THAT IS THE TRADEMARK OF THE STRAIN.


http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002562;p=1#000000





Compare both of the fish below of yours -- first is yours from the post above -- second yours from an earlier post. Note that the second fish is an obvious CNBG (see nose bar) . Then compare its fins and tail with those of the first fish above of yours and the CNBG pic of mine. Also the fish you are asking about seems to have a nose bar (scaling)as both of the other fish it is just not copper or distinct because of time of year and maturity.





Male CNBG

When I catch bluegills in New England as soon as they go into the wire basket or cooler they turn really dark. It doesn't happen with the bluegills I catch here in the midwest. Anyone else see this? I'm thinking it has something to do with water chemistry but I'm not sure. The water where I fish in New England is somewhat acidic vs. the alkaline water in my area of the midwest. However I do know darkening of fish can be a stress reaction but why it doesn't happen here is a mystery to me.

Gorgeous, george!

Theo's Theo-retical BG subspecies analysis based on % of body height above the centerline from the middle of the mouth to the middle of the tail says that a Northern BG has 50% of it's body height above the centerline, and a CNBG has 60% of it's height above the centerline. Based on printouts of the pics, I get a value of 60.6% for ewest's 9" example CNBG and a value of 54.1% for your nice catch of the day. This suggests that today's BG is a cross.

On previous crackpot analyses of mine, your BG have always measured in the middle; perhaps they have ALL been crosses between the Tyler CNBG and your Grandson's native transplants. Could that be the case?

Here are some more of George's fish. See any similarities with all of them?

Can I bring a fishing rod when I visit you in March, George??

Here’s another BG from yesterday morning…..
Until you guys got me hooked on BG, I thought they were just bait...

Todd Overton has previously commented that our BG suggests a dominant strain of Arkansas CNBG. Earlier in the year we swapped some of our brood stock for some of his pure Florida CNBG.

We’ll see what happens – I’m a happy guy

Bruce, by all means bring your fishing pole....
Cast and drag George ---
Cast and drag George --- :rolleyes:

George,

Those are some very NICE fish you are hauling in! That rod has been getting some workout.

They're all disgustingly large!

Seriously, I see some significant differences in just the four pictures ewest posted together.

On visual appearance only: #1 looks very Northern. #2 and #3 look very, very coppernosed. #4 looks like it might be a cross. CNBG experts: do Coppernose exhibit enough color/pattern variation with age/season/??? to account for those differences (nose band changes)?

Taking body height measurements for the hypothetical comparison, #1 = 55% above, #2 = 63% above, #3 = 59%, and #4 = 66%. Time for a new hypothesis - too much variation with body condition, age, and how the BG is being held.

In all of these pics there is color variation because of the light and stress associated with being caught and lifted into the light. They change color/patterns quick.

All 4 fish exhibit fewer/wide banding although it is hard to see in no. 3. All of them show similar fin/tail coloring including yellow/orange pectoral fin.

They do show much variation with age ,sex, spawn coloration , and maturity just like regular BG , and as a stress response . The copper bar is brighter with sexual maturity and during the spawn but can still be seen in many for much of the year. One thing often exhibited in male CNBG even when the copper bar is not very visible is a band or border of darker scaling from the top of the gill plate above and behind the eye (sorta like a stripe) that runs across the head/nose that is the top border of the copper band. You can see that in most of the pics above even where the copper bar is not showing. See my first pic above (measuring board one) for best example.

One thing I have noticed in my stocking of both the Ark. variety and the Fla. variety is that the Fla. ones seem to show more light/white fin/tail edge piping than the Ark ones. Note that George's don't show that trait (consistent with his Ark fish) as much as the measuring board one which is a Fla fish from one of Auburn's CNBG ponds. I wonder if that is an adaptation that has occurred in the Ark fish (whose distant ancestors were once a Fla fish as all CNBG are) that has occurred from many years/generations of isolation from the original home location ?

UGHhh. I can't even catch a 2 inch BG this week much less one like that. How do you catch them in cold water?

If your pond is like mine they have gone deep just off the bottom in the deepest water. Use a slip bobber with a beemoth (waxworm) and set it jus off the bottom. They aren't as cold down there in Texas as we are.

Thanks Cecil I might just try that.

Ok I guess I don't know what a beemoth (waxworm) is.?????

Little off-white, no fur caterpillars, maybe an inch or so long, used as a favorite live bait by many BG fishermen.

Waxworm:

OH, thanks Theo. Now where would I find them this time of year?

Most bait and tackle stores have them unless they are not something that is sold in your area. Crickets would be a good choice too.

Crickets, mealworms, and even waxworms can also be found in larger pet stores (intended for feed).

Why would anybody want a hybrid bluegill or georgia whatever when you could have that? Those are quite some fish and a worth goal.

Awesome George.

We do alot of SMB fising in here in KY. I was always told that the more they fight and the madder they become, thats when the bars become more pronouced. Could be the same with BG I guess.

George.....drooling in el dorado. i wonder if CNBG would do well at our elevation and latitude?

Don Jovi and Cecil......Many of the large GSF i caught at the ranchpond changed colors either light to dark or vice versa when i put them in white 5-gallon buckets, you could watch it happen, almost like those ocean squids jacques cousteau filmed and showed the world, my guess is some sort of defense mechanism.

DIED CNBG have about the same area/temp range as Fla. LMB. Neither do well in cold water for extended periods. My guess is below 45-50 degree water with no refuge for extended periods is to cold for good results.