Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat new pond

Hello,This is my first post, but I've been visiting here for quite a while.Man,lot of info here,can be overwhelming. First,Thank all of you for sharing your knowledge so freely.
We built a pond last spring(enter the drought)and I found Pondboss shortly after.
The pond is 7/8 of an acre,I was disapointed ,but we hit rock and that was about as far as we could go as the budget was stretched at this point.
I've put in a few structure piles,pallets held up off the bottom and rockpiles on that with some evergreens wired on.The pallets are mainly for fathead spawning,I figured when the pallets are gone I'll still have the rockpiles in place. I plan on putting in more structure this month.
The pond is 10-11 feet deep at the dam and goes to about 6 feet at the other end at the deepest point.There are two flats near the deep water and I was thinking these for spawning areas,I'm planning on some structure leading to and on the edge of deeper water..
There is a spring entering the pond about 10 feet above high water level.
I've got a plan for stocking and was looking for suggestions. I'm thinking fatheads,10 or 12 dozen as soon as the pond is full,or I'm resonably sure its not leaking.
I hope fot this to be a bluegill pond. After establishing the fatheads ,I was thinking hybrid bluegills,redears and maybe coppernose.Once these are established I was going to start bass.
I've been thinking all along about largemouth, but I've been reading on here and now I'm thinking about smallmouth,or maybe a mix of smallmouth and largemouth.
Is this feasible for a pond this small?Also the fish suppliers I've found that deliver to this area don't handle smallmouth.If anybody has a link to fish supliers I'd appreciate it.
I can see now that I'll be building a cage or a pool to try and raise some fish.
Oh,I plan to supplement feed.
Thank you for any help or suggestions.
pond looking north,wet area on right is where spring enters

pond looking south

Thank you,Mike

Welcome, Mike!

You've expressed an interest in creating a bluegill pond. Your pond is definitely big enough to have a bluegill pond but I have one big question.

If you were forced to admit a preference between quantity of panfish and quality, what would it be? The way I would approach the pond would be entirely different dependent on your answer.

Bruce

You listen to Bruce, now. He's got the right idea here...a man's got to have goals.

BTW, some of the finest gill fishing I've ever done has been in ponds that size and smaller.

Hi bruce,I'd think quality.I'd love to have those big gills and maybe a few bass to flyfish for.The pond will be fished by the grandkids also.
Thanks Mike

Quality bluegill and numerous small, hungry bass are an ideal combination. VERY doable.

I'm not completely anti-hybrid, but I'd strongly consider all of the possibilities before introducing hybrids. You can create a self-sustaining population of native bluegill with great growth potential and good numbers of catchable northern strain largemouth bass. Redears are awesome, and should be strongly considered.

Why coppernose? Just wondering. Not sure how far south Mansfield is.

There's plenty of threads on creating big bluegill fisheries, and there was an article in Pond Boss magazine last March you might want to check out that I wrote. There is also an upcoming issue in next month's Pond Boss that would be worthy of perusing.

Strongly, emphatically recommend subscription to the magazine. It's a teeny, tiny investment compared to what you've probably already spent.

P.S. The pond and the water look beautiful.

Bruce,Subscription sent,also ordered the pond management book.Thanks.
re:hybrids,I've read a lot of negatives on here about hybrids and some ok things also. Main reason for hybrids= lack of patience.Thought I would try to get some bigger ones to kick start fishing.I'm open to any suggestions you may have.I only know about what I've read on here.I find myself in an area where my ignorance shines.
re: coppernose,jusy because they're available,no good reason other than they look cool.
Do you think smallmouth are feasible?
Mansfield is about 45 min. southeast of Springfield.
re: water color,If the water stays this color I'll be very happy.We have a lot of limestone here.
I really appreciate your help,I'll search the archives for the article from last march.
Thanks again,Mike

Mike :

Welcome to the PB forum. Bruce has given good advice. You are to far north to get the full benefit of CNBG (coppernose) and in my opinion regular BG will do better and give you better results. Not a good idea to mix HBG and any other lepomis (BG , RES, or others ) in the same pond. If you need to jump start your pond add some large BG to the mix. Example - stock 500 2in. BG-- 150 RES and 50 adult 4-6 in BG. If you do that and feed you will by fall have 3 year classes of BG 8in., 4 in. and 2in. At that point you could add a few 2in LMB or SMB ( 50 +-) and a dozen 6-8in. of the same. There are a number of ways to get there depending on your goals. Very important to have a good ,trusted source of fish as some will tell you one thing and deliver something else.

Hi Ewest,Thanks for the welcome.Regular bluegill,would that be green sunfish?OK,no hybrids.
Any suggestions on fish suppliers?
Thanks Mike

Mike :

Not green sunfish. Just regular bluegill (BG). CNBG are a deep south/fla. strain of BG and do not reach their potential in colder climates. Look at these 2 links :

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/bluegill.html

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/greensun.html

Here are most of the lepomis/sunfish :

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/centrarchidae.html

Ewest is right - - definitely not green sunfish. I love ewest's idea of adding some adult fish. The articles in Pond Boss will give you much guidance in this respect. Check your local game laws about transporting adult fish, but in a pond that size you can have an immediate impact on the fishery in a very positive way.

IMHO, the best thing about a pond your size is the fact you can greatly affect the populations and size structures through angling pressure. It's a great situation.

If nothing else, remember the following edict.

"What goes in, may be really tough to get out". I.E. Don't introduce any species until you've thoroughly evaluated the consequenses. Most of us here at Pond Boss have made that mistake at least once.

There's also a great article in last months issue discussing the LMB/BG interrelationship by Dr. Dave Willis. Great reading and extremely applicable in your situation.

I love smallmouth, and cannot think of a single reason that you can't have them as a bonus fish, especially is you're willing to add a few advanced size fish every two or three years to augment the population.

I also agree with ewest that if hybrid BG are your primary focus, then it's easier to manage them independantly in their own pond. I really think if a person wants hybrid bluegill then they can definitely make them work, it's just that you raise the difficulty factor of overall management exponentially with every species added. It can be done, but the system will be less predictable.

By the way, I will bet any amount of money, that if placed in a well managed pond, with ample numbers of prey items, all other things being equal, a purebred bluegill will outperform a hybrid bluegill in ultimate size, assuming we're talking about bluegill/green sunfish hybrids. I know that my bias is showing through, so I'll just come out and say it...I love purebred bluegills. Most studies report (and if you scan state by state angling records) that the purebred bluegill has a better top end than BG/GS hybrids. Think about it. Why would a fish that grows to two pounds, mixed with a fish that grows to one pound, produce a fish that grows to three pounds? The reason, once again IMO, that hybrids sometimes grow faster is because of their agressiveness and larger mouth parts allow them to utilize prey items that bluegill can't at an early age. YOY and age-1 hybrids will often compete directly with your largemouth bass population for larval and fry size fish, giving them an early boost. If your pond is in good balance and producing a great crop of zooplankton, then that's when the purebred bluegill really shines!

Remember though, it's all up to you. Gather information, get the checkbook out and pull the trigger. It's all a great game with no set rules and no absolutes as to the results. Others may disagree with me and prove to be right in the end. You just never know.

Too much fun!

I may at some point in time disagree with you Bruce, but it definately won't be wrt BG! Where BG are concerned you have no equal!

Damn, Bruce....when does your book come out? Your knowledge and inspiration would be enuff to make an average city-Joe sell his penthouse view and dig a hole in the country. I know one thing; I'm buying front row when the "Bluegill Tour" comes to MY town.

Awww, man. You're way too generous in your comments. I think what you're really seeing here is 10% me, doing lots of observing and record keeping, combined with 90% gleaning from greats like Bill Cody, Dave Willis, Bob Lusk and Cecil Baird. Scientific literature is really the backbone for any fisheries knowledge and I've contributed zero. I can't tell you how many times I made an observation, then an assumption, then read scientific literature and found out that I was dead wrong. Then after reassessment, found a much more elegant reason for what I was seeing.

Sometimes I get on a roll and can regurgitate some of it.

Anyone whose New Years resolution is to catch a 2# BG from their pond has to be pretty much on the ball.

I just did a search on fish suppliers.I was asked in an earlier post why cnbg and hybrids,I guess the real answer was ,I was swayed by information I read at Dunns fish farm website.Boy,I'm glad I found this site.I was on track to make some mistakes.I'll be doing a lot of research on stocking and fish suppliers.Thanks again for the help.
Mike

Mike :

A lot of good people here to help you out. You will not find a person that can help you more with BG than Bruce. I will put my money on him against anyone I know. I agree with 100 % of what he provided above and even though he did not tell you, it is backed up with studies . I have read many of them and sent copies to Bruce of some and some are posted here. Give yourself a little time here to learn and you will be able to do most of it with just a little help. If you have a question ask and the answer is here if there is an answer.

Ewest,Thank you.I'm doing searches and reading through old posts now.Is there a way to read past articles in pond boss mag?
Thanks Mike

In Product Sources section I have the articles of Pond Boss Mag listed by years.
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=18

Decide which articles / issues you desire most and then to read the articles you will have to buy the back issues. Have someone get you a few issues for Fathers Day, a birthday or SweetestDay!