Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat What size tires?

I'm gonna start collecting the required junk to create structure/habitat. If things go right, I'll be done pushin' dirt at the end of the summer....I want to be ready to do the bottom stuff before it gets wet. I plan on using a few different types of structure. My focus on this thread is tire habitat.
I reached out to a local tire guy that gets into "larger than automotive" work. I called him today, told him my plans, and asked him if he would like to off-load used tires instead of paying to cart 'em off....positive response. His first question to me was "what are lookin' for, truck tires or earth mover tires?" I only have a Dakota PU with a 5K# 6.5' x 16' utility trailer, so I told him that truck tires are probably the goal.
I gotta move these things to the project; more than a couple of miles. Should I take him up on some the monster tires or just work with stax of the truck tires? I haven't really decided on the fish blend yet, but I see myself heading for the standard BG-LMB-CC mix. Does anybody see pluses or minuses for tire size?

Brettski :

Tires can be used in a number of different ways. Look at this slide show link from ahvatsa's pond where he partly burried some large tires and put some out flat. Others will put them tied together in mounds or fences. It really depends on your pond plan. Don't count on anything using them as a spawning area. I prefer using other natural objects like trees, rocks, brush ,gravel, pallets , stumps and dirt mounds and ditches for structure and cover.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b165/ahvatsa/

Here is a link to the structure manual :

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000123

http://www.sdafs.org/reservoir/manuals/habitat/Main.htm

Last link below is for tires :

http://www.sdafs.org/reservoir/manuals/habitat/tires.htm

I'd think the biggest drawback to monster truck tires would be the size and weight with resulting difficulty moving them, plus Lusk says size the structure to the fish. Small, tight structure for forage fish, larger & more open structure for predators. Now if you wanted huge blues or flatheads ...

So, Theo...
Based on my projected mix, should I be considering smaller tire structure for the forage fish AND larger for the predators? Help me here...still kinda toopid on the fish thing.

It depends on how you are going to use them. Look at the pics and get an idea of how they are used. You could for example do what ahvatsa did and stick xmas trees in the buried tire opening for small fish or several large limbs for bigger fish.

B-ski, Do you know anybody who has scrap of this stuff?



Lusk thinks it just may work for smaller fish--and it's economical. Maybe if you intermixed nearby bigger tire structures with smaller vertical condos you could cover all your bases.

My personal thinking is regular sized tires can be used to make structure sized for regular (i.e. LMB) predators, and aren't "tight" enough (without creative additions such as plastic mesh, which wouldn't really be very hard to do) to be optimum for forage fish. IMO monster tires are bigger than needed.

Realize I am looking at the world through conventional tire-sized eyeballs - when I finally do tires, it'll be with the 160 or so 13" to 16" tires I have on hand for another purpose (their retirement from that use is looming).

BUT - if they're all free - it's your labor. Invest as much as you can/care to, in whatever size mix you like. I do like the way ahvatsa (I keep thinking he's Hawaiian :rolleyes: ) stuck his big tires in.

Look at the links ewest gave and get many more opinions than just mine.

I agree with Theo --no need for monster tires. The problem with them is they will give you a hernia or if they get away and roll over someone or thing you will never explain how they relate to fish structure. :p

Thanx, Oh great wizard of Ponds...very helpful and triggering the DaVinci side of me. I will admit that the almighty Kahuna Avahtsa has instilled great inspiration with his project. Ewest, great linkage and support as always. I gotta take some time on da side and study. Bruce, give me a verbal tour of your new condo project. Please point out the selling points and why this is a desired location...is it because of the "schools"? Doh! But seriously, take me back to the fundamentals of why that simple Trump tower is fish-friendly. Theo, you just sound tired. :rolleyes:

When I built my lined ponds I had to hold down one seam with standard 8 X 8 X 16 concrete blocks with the two holes in them. When the pond was filled I went into the pond with scuba equipment and found all of the largest bluegill backed into the holes. One bluegill to a hole. It seemed to me that this corrugated drain tile, if I'm using the correct term, would be an inexpensive way to concentrate the best bluegill in an area that was nearby the small dock being built.

Bruce, that is great info about the BG using the blocks.

B'ski, Commercial plumbers are a good source for leftover pieces of larger PVC.

Heck, I still prefer rock piles and brush.

Isn't the tubular thing the same type structure that CC are lookin' for to spawn? About 2 years ago, I came real close to buying a beautiful 2 Ac pond that was stocked with CC. The owner told me that he had dropped tile sections to the bottom to encourage spawning. As I read thru the forum, most of the print to this regard agrees, albeit a questionable level of positive results.

(edit)Ya know, I'm thinking about Bruce's Tile condo...the 4" tile is cheap as dirt. I could easily see building a a couple of these with that stuff, but would the smaller diameter be restrictive to promoting use? Bruce's model home appears to be something closer to 8" dia stock.

Brettski: I found the same kind of deal when I was looking for tires -- the guy was happy to let me haul a trailerful off instead of paying someone else. I got the ones about 4 to 5 foot in diameter (there were much bigger ones available). Then it was a matter of rolling them down into the pond and using the tractor to arrange them. Here are some photos:

The good Cap'n complains at little...
Yeah, I can see you were bustin' your butt gettin' em down there.

They're probably old photos - the Captain looks like more of an Ensign in them.

I know that tires would work pretty well in my pond but I don't have much access to them.

What about pine tress? Any issues with pine needles raising the acidity of the water? I know that they are a softwood and will break down quicker but I've got almost 200 acres of nothing but pine and some rock. Use what you got right!?!

Jake B

Most places that sell tires have plenty of old ones. Perhaps your not near any place such as that but they will give them to you in most cases. If you do use tires and you band them togeather in the upright postion be sure to drill holes in the top to get rid of the air so they will sink. Someone else will have to advise about pine trees, I would not think some would hurt, a few per acre perhaps.
Big Jake

Thanks Big Jake will look into it.

Jake B :

I assume you soils are naturally acidic as a result of long term pine and oak growth. If so you will need to lime anyway so a few pines will not make any difference. Just add a little more lime. If you need structure ideas look at the links at the start of the thread in addition to the ones on your thread.

FWIW, I had some tires brought to my property and wasn't smart enough to use them in the pond right away. If you like swarms of mosquitoes, this is a good idea. :rolleyes:

Pure genious, Mastah Bruce! Don't fish eat Mosquito larvae?

I'm certainly no expert on this. But I recently visited a local hatchery and the guy showed my how he grows forage in his forage pond. He simply lays about 3 to 4 foot wide strips of black construction plastic in his pond around the edges in less than 3 foot depths. He says that minnows (I don't remember what kind he raises)will stick their eggs to the underside of cover. So the black plastic is twisted a few times so it won't lay flat. The fish lay eggs on the undersides. The black plastic helps the water stay warmer. That's all he has for structure in these lined ponds and he raises forage by the ton. Each pond is about 75 feet square.

Just an idea of what I did with tires...about 100 here all together. I've a buddy with a repair shop. He delivered, unloaded and stacked them...save him about $250.

These 4 bundles of tires each have 20-25 tires in them. I punched holes all over them with a carbide bore that we use to ream out nail holes prior to repair. Staked each pile w/2 steel posts.

They rest on a steep bank and will be submerged under from 2 to 6 feet of water. Last summer, before the drought sucked my pond down by about 3.5 feet, they were nearly covered...now about 2/3 exposed, again...wife hates it. The little fishes were all over them, as were the tadpoles...

[img]http://images.snapfish.com/346326859%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D323%3B%3E756%3E465%3EWSNRCG%3D3233534484728nu0mrj[/img]


Anyway...this shows a down-looking shot of how I lined them up between the tractor and the truck. With a come-along, I stretched that SS 3/16" cable awful tight, and added 2 clamps. Drug them to the pond, and was still able to drag them (downhill, by hand) to where I wanted them. Had about $20 worth of cable and clamps in the whole thing. Wish they'd go under again...

[img]http://images.snapfish.com/346326859%7Ffp335%3Enu%3D323%3B%3E756%3E465%3EWSNRCG%3D3233534484874nu0mrj[/img]

Matt,
Is this an X-ray of your back after you dragged the subject tires in Pic #1?

Good'un Brettski. Naw, I drug 'em to the high bank with the tractor, and then just sorta "guided" them downhill to where I wanted them. Wasn't really a drag, so much as a controlled slide. Stucka couple half t posts in the bank and just let 'em hang there.


They are an absolute magnet for lil fishes...

Holy innnertube, Batman...even the smaller truck tires weigh a ton!

Theo, I couldn't resist the monster tires. I kinda see 'em worked in with or attached to some PVC tree structures. It feels like someone threw my tinker toys in with my erector set and nuk'ed 'em. Maybe I should just tow the trailer into the basin, unhook it and fuggedaboutit.
My tire guy did offer some interesting, perhaps ticket-saving advice. He told me to never carry more than 19 tires at a time; 20 requires a special trans. permit (or license?).

Well, if you're only gonna haul 19, you have to make up for it with size.

Hi guys, just was wondering if there were any updates to how the tires have turned out? I have a brand new 2 acre pond starting to fill and wanted to get some ideas on putting in the structure now before the pond is completely filled. I have some deep 16' areas. Any help would be great.

Welcome to the forum Steve.

I have at least one tractor tire, some semi tires and also car tires in tee-pee fashion and also in conjunction with concrete foundation pieces. Far as I know they work ok. I have went down with scuba gear and checked on them. Still there.

I do have CC recruitment so they could be using the tires for cavities to spawn in.

You might try the structure archives. Structure archives here

Unfortunately because of a change in Photobucket, a lot of the pictures will not be view-able unless you have a patch for your browser to get around the link problem.

I can't provide any specific evidence as to how well they work to "hold fish", but I can offer some basic advice.
You will need to put holes at the tops to allow any air accumulation to escape. You will likely hit steel cords if you go thru the tread. Drop down to the wall of the tire, keeping about an inch away from the tread. I also punched smaller holes thru the walls, at mid height, to allow lashing them together to support each other and stand up. I used UV resistant, heavy duty zip ties. Here, some years later, most of them are still lashed together and standing. The couple that busted are suspect due to ice movement....which leads me to my next piece of advice. If in a climate that suffers hard freezes for weeks or months, consider how low the pond level might be at the time the freeze occurs and weigh that against the top elevation of ANY structure. I have had plenty of damage to anything that got frozen into a 2 or 3 acre ice floe that the wind pushed around the pond.

My biggest piece of advise is with any type of structure location... Your pond will rarely and for a short amount of time be at FULL POOL. Be sure and compensate for that when placing your structure if you don't want everything sticking up above the surface. Also I tied duck decoys to every stack of tires and structure I put in my pond for easy location. When I fish near a duck it tells me if it is truly "holding" fish near that structure. Plus it has helped bring live ducks in to the area. Also ditto on drilling holes in the tires. You will need it!!

Duck decoy locators = excellent idea in warmer climates. I lost every one within 2 years due to shifting ice = no good for frozen ponds.

Thanks.

You could pinpoint them with a good GPS fishfinder, or make floating locators that don't reach the surface in winter, and always stay below the bottom of the ice in winter, or do both.

I have positioned my first tire pile where only the select few will know where to toss their line...but really it is along the line of my culverts and the point on the other side...I may use the decoys at some other locations.

I am trying to decide if I should put a few more piles of tires (I have 1 more large tractor, 5 smaller tractor tires and 4 truck tires remaining)...I will also place a bunch of PVC tree structures and PVC bushes all around.

John,
Can you describe a bit in detail how you did the tee-pee tires or other ways to use them as cover? I'm not sure if putting them in a stack and flipping to the side like a tunnel is a good idea or not. Thanks.

I would probably do some of mine differently were I doing it over. I found PBF after I already had my structure for the most part done and the pond was filling up. So I did not gain the benefit of what I have since learned here on the forum.

One pile I just stacked them flat in a circle, then an overlapping circle inside that, then another on top of that forming a tee-pee shape. I drilled holes in the sidewalls and stuffed rocks in and around the tire beads to hold them open and as ballast. I would not particularly recommend doing it that way. There are a lot more effective ways of doing it and the structure archives describe some of the methods. Most of my structure was out of concrete foundation pieces, cedar trees, and inverted stumps. So the tires were kind of an afterthought and I did not put the effort into them to gain best effect, in my opinion.

The tractor tire and semi tires I leaned and stuffed them in and around my concrete foundation beams (concrete stacked up Lincoln log style), drilled holes in them, and put some rocks inside to keep them from floating.

I did have one derelict tire float to the bank which I had to re-position and re-sink after the pond filled, so it is important to get enough holes that gas does not accumulate in the inside of the tire and float them. Even if you get the air out initially and the tire sinks, pond gasses formed from muck can still accumulate in cavities and float them later. So the holes are needed so there is an escape route for gas buildup.

Since I did my structure, I have seen lots better use of tires than what I did. Check out the archives although unless you have a browser plug in a lot of the pictures have been lost access to. I think some browsers have a work around so those pictures can be viewed.

structure, cover, etc archives here

Edit: I see a lot of the old links are not working, including the one on tires. Sorry about that.

I had four old 20" rim truck tires I found when cleaning up the overwhelming brush behind the pond. Was going to use tires in the pond. Wife said tires are ugly....didn't want to see them if pond gets low. Had to dispose of them at city clean up. YMMV. I talked her into my using five culverts instead. Our pond water is very clear.

Thanks guys. I have set four tractor tires so far, as pond is filling slowly and naturally via springs. I wanted to share the pics, but unable to attach.

Steve if you are attaching as an attachment then you might be limited because file size is too big. I think limit is 2mb and you would have to use Paint or some other resizer program before attaching them.

I have a picture resizer somewhere............... but I am lazy.

I just email the pictures to myself and my email program automatically asks me what size I want to send. Probably not the most efficient use of internet bandwidth, but it works.

Here is the first set of tires. They are the large 5' diameter Tractor tires. I have drilled 4-6 holes per tire near the top most part of the tire. I also latched them together using polypropylene rope.

Tire Structure

You might want to wedge something in between the beads in two or three places. Depending on how stiff the sidewalls are of the tractor tires, laying horizontally, the opening may tend to collapse some. Wedging two or three concrete blocks, bricks or something of that nature will make sure the tires keep their shape better.

Also setting the tire laying flat on the bottom on three or four concrete blocks will keep it from being lost in the muck in a few years. It is surprising how quick six inches of light fluffy muck develops on a pond bottom. Concrete blocks are cheap and last forever.

Another thing that will help the tires hold fish is to have some dense cover in and around the tires. Like a cedar or old Christmas tree. Dense cover will hold small fish. Small fish attract medium size fish that will use the tires that will attract even larger fish to eat the medium size fish.

Something else to think about is making a "fish highway" out to that cover. If small fish have a way of safely traveling from the shore line, where they like to feed, out to your tire pile they will be more likely to use it. If small fish use it, it will attract larger fish. Maybe some rock piles, block piles, Christmas trees, etc making a path out to the tires. This is something I did not know about when I did my structure/cover and wish I would have done more of it. I did like you are doing, just put independent "islands" of cover. Giving small fish relative safe passage to and from cover areas will make them more likely to utilize it. Small fish attract big fish.

The way you have it will work fine. Just some of my ideas that would make it better.

Thanks John, I will definitely incorporate some of your ideas. The fish highway and additional piles are definite musts. Will also prop open tires more.