Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Expanding existing ponds

I just bought 45 acres just west of Nocona TX, and it has two small ponds. The soil all around the property is sandy loom, but the exposed portions of the ponds (down about 5')are red clay. Both still have water by the way, while most in the area are dry. Would you guess the clay was brought in to make the ponds? I want to expand the ponds, but I am afraid if I just dig them bigger I will create a leaky situation. I dug a pit about 80' from the pond about 6 feet deep and it looked to the untrained eye like it was all sandy loom (consistently dark rich looking color but granular) Can they be enlarged without screwwing up what I have? Another question: I was thinking of connecting the higher elevated pond to the lower with a winding creek and a pump system to return water to the upper pond. I can think of some upsides of the flowing water, but not sure if I know them all, or if there are any down sides?

welcome to PB joe murphy. i'm sure you'll get some great feedback on this post.

great questions, and it does sound like the clay was imported. although, how deep are the ponds at full pool? you may have stratified clay at depths greater than 6 feet which would be great, otherwise, plan on bringing in more if you expand ponds.

a quick downside to pumping water = electricity = $$. if you have different goals for each pond, you might want to keep them separate, but if not, and you can afford it, it would be a great thing to do in my mind.

This is a good time to check the local soil type map with the local NRCS office if they are amenable. I'd also be digging some test holes to see what the subsoils are like before any new pond or pond expansion excavating is done.

Dave in El Dorado; The lower pond that i am most interested in enlarging, from top of bank to the water surface is probably six feet and there is probably 3 feet of water in the pond for a total of 9' This pond is fed by a small creek.

Theo Gallus; does digging some test holes mean I would need to get as deep as the ponds bottom elevation?

That strikes me as a good idea; I'd want to know what to expect where the pond bottom would be.

joe, i would as theo suggested, check w/ NRCS or county agencies for local soil classification information. in my neck of woods, one can get soil info at the county environmental health dept.

i would also check with your state or county water resources board to view local water well logs (assuming domestic wells are filed with state or county agencies). do you have your own well (and well log)? although no offense to drillers intended, sometimes their soil descriptions aint so good.

the true test would be to pothole a couple places within your potential expanded pond areas to your desired maximum pond depth (at a minimum) to evaluate if clay is present on-site.....you might want to consider collecting some test pit soil samples for routine geotechnical analysis especially if you find soils of silt/clay mixtures.

you'll either find sufficient clay to excavate into and/or sufficient clay to excavate out and re-work into your pond substrate, or you'll find no clay domiant soils at all and likely have to import if you want to expand.

...just a little thinkin' outside the box.
If Joe has some water and the rest of the hood no-gots...AND...his soils apppear to be consistently sandy loam, is it possible that the water he currently retains is water table? Just another twist to confirm or deny.

i love yer outside the box thinkin brettski.....thats a good possibility....but where joe describes the red clay exposed below high water line suggests they are lined with imported clay.

nevertheless, joe you could evaluate your topogrpahy, look at your drainages...are the ponds located directly in drainage channel? any springs? groves of cottonwoods or poplars?, water level in well? did you encounter groundwater when you dug your 6 foot test pit?

ah yes...there's the obvious test I'm not thinkin' of.

Joe, I'm betting that if you do a little legwork, you can find your answers from prior land owners or current neighbors, time to do some networking. Good luck hitting the water table at 10 ft. But you are somewhat close to the Red River, it's possible...I guess

no water or clay in the pit I dug. Are imported clay and liners the only two solutions? I have heard something about a spray type treatment?

Look at this link and DD1's comment on drilling/frac mud.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000140;p=1#000006

Joe, call Danny Russell at the Montague County NRCS office. Next, talk to Mike Otto, Ottos Dozer Service, in Lindsey. You can ask Danny about Mike. You can find a link with Mikes contact info on the Pond Boss home page. He is extremely knowledgeable about Montague County soils and pond work. If you are going to have work done, Mike would be my choice. I have never used him but have talked to a lot of people about him. I am told that Mike does nothing halfway.

Gotta admit, I do know him on a personal basis. That said, please don't tell him I said nice things about him.

Thanks Dave, Heard the same thing about Mike Otto. I have an email in to him but have not heard back. Maybe I can get a phone number listed under Ottos Dozer Svc?

Joe, I would dig the test holes as deep as I intended digging the pond then fill the holes with water to see if it drains out.

Joe, the Resource Guide gives his number as 800-882-3478. I doubt that he messes with E-mail very much.

Thanks everyone for the great advice!! Thanks for number Dave.