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#75795 09/18/06 09:38 PM
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Before posting my question, i researched the pond boss archives to see all the electrofishing questions of the past.

I learned that it costs thousands of dollars, and it should be left to professionals.

What im wondering is How do you become a professional electroshocker? What are the rules and regulations about electroshocking? Where can you buy an electroshocking boat (with all the bells and whistles)?


#75796 09/18/06 09:59 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by n8ly:
Before posting my question, i researched the pond boss archives to see all the electrofishing questions of the past.

I learned that it costs thousands of dollars, and it should be left to professionals.

What im wondering is How do you become a professional electroshocker? What are the rules and regulations about electroshocking? Where can you buy an electroshocking boat (with all the bells and whistles)?
Depends on what you mean by professional electroshocker. Do you mean for your own use or as a person that manages ponds for a living and uses electroshocking as a tool?

Here's a website that sells the equipment:

http://www.smith-root.com/products/

Notice how expensive it is? That's probably because they sell to government entities and when the taxpayer is footing the bill the price really gets jacked up. The manufacturer also offers classes.

I bought a used unit from Todd Overton for a fraction of the cost of a new one. I'm just now finally getting around to building the boom.

Here's a link to some good inforamation on electroshocking:

http://www.sfos.uaf.edu/shockingnews/index.html


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#75797 09/19/06 06:00 AM
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The number one rule is to always stay in the boat. Other than that, there are no rules and regulations that I know of. Re-read rule number one. It's fairly important.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
#75798 09/19/06 08:41 AM
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Don't know what you have in mind. It is not as easy as crank it up and go. There is an entire section in Fisheries Tech 2nd on the subject.

Rule 1A the same as rule 1 but it applies to hands , feet, nets or other items in the water. Yours , others on the boat or even those following along in boats around you. It can be a shocking encounter. Rule 1 and 1A are corollaries of the concept that electricity and water don't mix well.

Rule 2 be sure it has a kill switch and that you know about it and use it every time.
















#75799 09/19/06 08:48 AM
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Rule number 2 reads something like this:

"Always stay in the boat"

Rule number 3 clearly states:

"Keep your hands, feet, nets and other items in the boat"

Rule number 4 states:

"Carefully read all of the previous rules"

Rule number 5 states:

Either be extremely willing the learn about the dangers of electrofishing, or don't do it at all"

Take a wild guess what rule number 6 is?

#75800 09/19/06 09:44 AM
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Here is my commentary on electrofishing and a couple additional things for you to consider and research.

Firstly, get some HANDS ON (not just watching) experience using a fish electroshocker with someone else. I have participated in electroshocking for sampling fish in college and as a helper on numerous fish sampling projects.

Considering the cost & maintenence of all equipment and then amount of effort required each time, and the overall results of the fish produced, and limitations of the technique (only good in shallow water up to 4-6ft & that it is most successful at night, mismatches in power transfer, & better in higher conductivity waters), I am not impressed with the techinque and it is over rated as a tool for the private pond owner. Other disadvantages of fish shockers are: the shock zone is not all that large, often numerous fish sense the encroachment of the boat &/or the electrical current field and avoid the shock zone by moving away or deeper, numerous fish (maybe the larger percentage) are only partially or inadequately stunned and cavort out of the reach of the netters. Some species of fish are more vulnerable to electrofishing than others. Some types of fish due to morphology, physiology, and behavior or habitat preference are poorly sampled by electrofishing. Electrofishing tends to be biased toward sampling the larger fish. Water temperature, water transparency (cloudiness), substrate composition, and habitat/cover all affect the electrofishing efficiency directly and indirectly. Electrofishing units in untrained or unknowledgable hands often results in over stressed and injured fish which later die. Improper electrofishing can cause fish injury such as acidosis & reduced respiratory efficiency which can eventually kill fish. Injuries usually take two forms brusing or hemorrhages and fractures in hard tissues. More study needs to be done on the effects of electroshocking on fish eggs (laid and unlaid). So you could actually be inadvertently killing or permenately damaging some of your better and more prized fish by improperly electrofishing.

As commonly mentioned the technique is extremly dangerous to even trained users. Make sure insurance policies are paid up for all users; accidents very easily happen on rocking boats and with excitable, nonfocused, inexperienced, "helpers".

Secondly, Electrofishing is a good tool for a private or government business where time is money and they need a relatively good AND quick idea of what fishes are present to make mananagement decisions. BUT FOR THE EDUCATED AND INOVATIVE PONDOWNER WHO HAS CONSTANT ACCESS TO THIS POND, THERE ARE JUST AS GOOD, IF NOT BETTER WAYS OF SAMPLING FISH TO DETERMINE THE OVERALL COMPOSITION OF A FISHERY COMMUNITY. Note that almost always a written report is created (or should be created) from each electrofishing sampling trip. This is performed to make an educated, data filled, statistical evaluation of the electrofishing results. If one is not capabale of writing one of those reports, then I my opinion, you have no business with a fish electroshocking unit because you do not know how to make best use of the information gleened from the equipment.

In summary, electrofishing is a glamorous and seemingly impressive way to collect fish from your pond. But due to its inherent danger and several other disadvantages it is a sampling method that is best used by those with some training and experience.

A little research into a good fisheries techniques book will reveal other very good, sometimes better, and definately safer methods FOR PRIVATE PONDOWNERS to themselves sample their fish (as ewest mentions, see the book Fisheries Techniques, 2nd edition, 1996, by Brian Murphy & David Willis (Dr Willis is a PB regular forum contributor; book is available from sellers such as Amazon.com)). Hopefully Pond Boss magazine will in the future, feature some of these fish sampling techniques and how to effectively use the results or data they are capable of producing to help pondowners improve or enhance their fish populations.


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#75801 09/19/06 10:00 AM
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As a pond owner and someone who has had electroshocking performed once on one of my ponds, I completely agree with Bill's post above. The technique is way over-rated as a tool for the private pond owner who pays attention to their ponds.

#75802 09/19/06 01:04 PM
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I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to electricity but is there really an electrocution danger from fish shocking? Our DNR uses backpack units where they walk in the water with waders. That has to be real dangerous! I'm thinking that since electricity takes the shortest path to ground there would be little danger in sticking your hand out of a boat since the electricity would be traveling from electrode to electrode amidst a rather large volume of water. Perhaps the danger is in the fact that the human body is more conductive than water? What kind of voltage and current are we talking about anyway?


Gotta get back to fishin!
#75803 09/19/06 01:58 PM
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Without getting too technical, I suspect backpack units have a lot less "oomph" on fish or humans than generator driven electroshock units on boats.

Good question whether Humans are more conductive than freshwater. IIRC blood salinity is pretty much the same as seawater, so conductivity from NaCl would be higher in bodies. I don't know what effect the other electrolytes in pondwater would have (calcium, for example), but mostly it's just too darn dangerous to take a chance.


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#75804 09/19/06 06:19 PM
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Cody are you trying to put me out of business, just kidding. I agree in many respects to its limitations. For a onetime picture of current popualtion dynamics I think nothing better is avaialbe.

I just wish all pondowners had more realistic expectations. Folks think every fish in the pond is going to be captured. However I feel very confident when I interpret the data in what is going on in the pond and feel 100% confidnet in recommendations according to the goals of pondowner based on this information. So yes you need to understand how it works to make adjustments according to pond parameters to maximizie the capture effectivenes and know how to interprt the results and this will only come with expereince. It has its drawbacks but until something else comes along for analysis we will keep the boat on the road.


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#75805 09/19/06 07:30 PM
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This has been an extremely valuable thread, and I learned several important lessons from this outstanding thread. The most valuable of these is that I won't ever electroshock fish myself and, if I were staying in the pond world, I would continue to have it professionally done, as I have in the past.

A related question is that I once had the pond electrofished by a reputable private company and had it sampled by seining by the state fishery folks in the same year. The results were not even similar. The sein showed a pond in balance. The electrofishing showed a pond very much in imabalance, with more bass than bluegill! I decided, based on what I was catching (many small bass, moderate numbers of very large bream and very small ones, and almost no bluegill in the intermediate range, that the electrofishing results were more reliable. Is this generally true?
Thanks,
Lou

#75806 09/19/06 08:06 PM
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Greg, I am not trying to put anyone out of business. A quick scan of my above post might lead one to think this way. However if you carefuly re-read the post it says - "Secondly, Electrofishing is a good tool for a private or government business where time is money and they need a relatively good AND quick idea of what fishes are present to make mananagement decisions."

I think Greg qualifies as a private business. I have confidence that he has academic training in the use of the equipment, he can adequately use electroshocking gear, has lots of experience in using the gear and can make educated evaluations regarding the fish that are collected. If one has these abilities then by all means electrofishing can be a valuable tool for assessing the dynamics of a fish community.


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#75807 09/19/06 08:40 PM
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When Greg or another fisheries pro is paid for electroshocking, they are being paid for (at least) three things: 1) use of the e-shock equipment, 2) operating said equipment, and 3) interpretation of the results gathered by that equipment. IMHO #3 is where they really earn their money.

In my profession, anyone can look at 1 1/2 inches of results printed out during and after a 30 hour calibration run. But there are very few who know what parts of that data are important and what they really mean.


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#75808 09/19/06 08:46 PM
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In my business taking dental radiographs is a science. Interpretation of the radiographs is an art. The latter is much more difficult to teach.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#75809 09/19/06 09:07 PM
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Bill,

I found you post utterly shocking!

Does this mean you're not coming over for my first try at electroshocking? \:D

I'll be dropping the water level to about 5 feet max which should shock the *&%$##% out of those little devils! :p :p :p


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#75810 09/19/06 09:14 PM
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n8ly Offline OP
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Thanks everybody for the input. GREG, i am especially interested in picking your brain (no offense to everybody else) . Do you enjoy electroshocking? Where did you get your training? Where did you get your boat? Do you stay busy?


#75811 09/19/06 09:36 PM
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I am coming over and I am bringing my camera for your first shocking adventure. I can give you some basic beginners advice. Plus someone has to be there real close by to call 911 just in case. For your wife's sake, make sure you have your last will & testiment finalized just in case.


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#75812 09/19/06 09:58 PM
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Dr Willis' book discusses backpack stream e-fishing units. Some important points are:

1. Dry skin, thick rubber gloves, rubber waders, and clothing covered with rubber insulation are necessities. No leaks -
2. A waterproof container to house the shocker.
3. Electrical system can be 12V deep cycle batttery or 110-120V AC generator. Gel batteries are safer than acid batteries.
4. Electrodes must be insulated from the operator with nonconductive handles 1.5-2.0 m long.
5. Saftey system must include automatic & manual circuit breakers. Automatic switch must be tilt activated; reset must me manual. Anodes should not be used as dip nets to capture OR move fish.

Wading in a slippery bottomed rock filled stream carrying a high powered electrocution device sounds like "spitting in the eye of the devil" and a good way to shorten one's life span.


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#75813 09/19/06 10:26 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Cody:
I am coming over and I am bringing my camera for your first shocking adventure. I can give you some basic beginners advice. Plus someone has to be there real close by to call 911 just in case. For your wife's sake, make sure you have your last will & testiment finalized just in case.



If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#75814 09/19/06 11:34 PM
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Not sure why you are wanting to electroshock. I have been able to get the area Kansas fish & game fish specialist (not sure of his official title) to put his shock boat on my pond on two separate ocassions about 8 years apart. I did it to check the overall fish population, & size to determine if there was a certain size of fish I needed to thin out a little when pond was extra low due to drought when going into fall 7 winter. Pond has LMB, BG and CC. If you have someone similar near you it might be worth a phone call. I was able to ride in the boat with a net to help gather the fish that came to the top. it will give you a different perspective on the fish in your pond.

#75815 09/20/06 08:40 AM
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So you mean to tell me this whole electroshocking thing isn't just as simple as throwing in the wifes hair dryer??? \:D

Bill, make sure it's a video camera this has "internet legend" written all over it.

All kidding aside, great topic. I was not aware of the limitations of electroshocking. Out of curiosity about how much does this type of service cost?

(I guess the wifes hair dryer is safe for now).

(ok most kidding aside, you guys should know by now with me it's never all kidding aside).


JHAP
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#75816 09/20/06 08:57 AM
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The conductivity in certain waters isn't good for electrofishing. My water's salinity (and some other factors that I'm not smart enough to understand) make it a poor choice for shocking.


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#75817 09/20/06 07:35 PM
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I have a theory, and it's just a theory, that if a pondowner had an electrofisher unit and IF he used it on a regular basis say monthly or even once every two months in his own pond, at least one or two things would likely happen. 1. The fish that would get shocked on an initial frequent basis would quickly learn to avoid either the oncoming electrical current or a noisy boat that contained a generator. I am sure the gas powered generator produces lots of sound vibrations that transmit into the water. 2. Frequently shocked fish, maybe several times a year, would start to exhibit some sort of physical or mental stress which would lead to health problems.

I am not sure if this has ever been studied. There is some published data about a short term study on the affects of repeated electroshocking on fish at one day intervals (Cross & Stott 1975). It did not seem to affect them very much.

Fish seem to learn to avoid lures and some other negative reinforcements, why not electroshocking?


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#75818 09/20/06 10:11 PM
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Either what Bill said, or the fish would start to glow....almost like how Uncle Fester could light a bulb by putting it in his mouth.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#75819 09/21/06 10:46 AM
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This is off the toppic, but I see you are from Peoria. Is that Illinois, or Arizona?


Chris
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