Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations turtles, muskrats and chain link fence

I am putting galvanized chain link fence from just above the water line down 6' in my new pond to discourage muskrats. Will that also make it tough on the turtles? I was going to buy some turtles along with first load of fish.

Our resident turtles start their (Winter) burrows just under the water line - sounds like your anti-muskrat fence would stop that.

Why buy turtles? They always have a way of making it into a pond.

Thanks Theo. Waterfowlkillr - that's what I was thinking, too. My lovely wife found out I ordered fish and asked if I ordered turtles.
Some on this forum seem to detest turtles but not having had them, I think I like them. Muskrats, however I have in my smaller, older pond. I am sure I don't like 'em. That pond is 20 years old and I have never seen a turtle. I think it to be only 1/5 acre.

I think I would rather have an anti-muskrat fence than I would turtles. I'm neutral on turtles. They are the buzzards of the pond, eat mostly vegetation, and provide somewhat of a service. They eat a little bit of feed and occasionally try to rob bait but aren't much of a problem. When I think I have too many, they become target practice. I once cleaned one of my catfish and found a half dollar sized one in its stomach. I expect digestation would have taken a while.

Scott, I don't believe I have ever seen a water hole without turtles. I once found them in an Arizona desert pond many miles from the closest other water. How do they know where they are going? They tend to migrate from pond to pond and just stocking them wouldn't assure that you would keep them. I see them crossing the roads in my area and didn't know anyone, other than aquarium stores, even stocked and sold them. If you want to try, build or buy a turtle trap and check it often enough to keep them from drowning. Creeks, neighbors ponds and lakes should get some for you.

Ohio Scott, we do ourselves a disservice when we use the general term "turtles". This is no different that saying that we want "fish" in our lakes. This is like saying that it doesn't matter what species we put in, they are all good or bad.

Some species of turtles migrate overland readily and others will not.

I deliberatly added 6 female spiny softshell turtles as scavengers. They don't migrate overland so I know this is all I will have. I also added about 50 western painted turtles and made sunning areas just for them. An individual painted turtle may become a problem by taking bait or eating pellets. I remove this individual and take 5-10 miles away and let it go.

Snapping turtles do travel overland extensively and we will get them, if we don't have them already. I'll just have to wait and see what happens with them.

Muskrats are a different story. I don't mind the burrows but they eat the vegetation along the shoreline.

I'm neutral to slightly positive on turtles. I enjoy seeing them a little; the only thing I dislike is when their bank burrows collapse. But I have found it to be less work to refill the collapsed burrows (with pond bottom material) than to get rid of the turtles.

Muskrats, I do not want at all.

Norm, interesting post. I had no idea that some turtles will stay put. To the best of my knowledge, I have never had a snapping turtle. Actualy, I haven't seen one in years.

I read an interesting turtle article. Their life span limits interest in scientific study. Very few researchers want to study something whose life span will be longer than their own career.

What capture method do use for relocation?

Dave, if you ever see a softshell turtle, you will see that they definitely are not made for life on land. Without a connection from a stream, they won't get into our lakes. They are easy to sex as the males only get 10-12 inches depending on the area.

If I even see a painted turtle show interest in a bobber or bait, they're gone. Sometimes I catch them on a hook, other times with a net. They are fun to watch suning themselves or swiming in the lake.

I have already had a bad experience with my resident muskrat - his burrows have caused cave-ins 12' from the old pond that will swallow a mower wheel.
Around bere I have seen snappers butI think the painted turtle is the most common.
Norm - I assume spiny softshells would like it here in Ohio as well as SD? Where did you get them? Do I need to leave some bank with no fence to allow them some burrow space? Any idea how deep any turtle might go to burrow? My fence is 6' - could they make it below that line? I am pretty sure the mrats wont.
I saw the muskrat in my new pond already - this winter when the ice was on. I could see him swimming under the ice. But there will be 4' more water to go so his existing burrows should be too deep.

Norm,
Please describe a "sunning area" for painted turtles. Is depth of water critical?

OS, if I comprehend what yer sayin is yer gonna line INSIDE yer pond with 6' fence, my mind is whirrin. Holy crap barrier man, that's a shootload a fence!!! I'm mentally exstatic with the thought of how many rifles, pistols, shotguns and ammo that kind of expenditure could provide. Then there's the additional bonus of the boneafide excuse ta the Missus as ta spendin sooo much time at the pond, policein fer waterrats. Simple solution from a simple mind. Bob-O

Brettski, I've tried so many different things. What I've found that works the very best is a pile of rocks or concrete blocks. I decided where I wanted them to be to provide the best viewing. Then I added concrete blocks to make an area about 20 ft. wide that goes from a foot above the high water mark to 4 ft. below the high water mark. This provides a good sunning area no matter what the water level. This is for painted turtles and I would assume sliders also.

Ohio Scott, I bought these from a turtle dealer at Spirit Lake, Iowa. He buys thousands of turtles and has 6 people buchering full time during the warm season. The market for turtles amoung Asian populations is huge. You might get either spiny or smooth softshells in Ohio.

I'm not sure about controlling muskrats. I trap them and also shoot them with a 22. For me, I want a few but too many are too many.

Would there be a plastic cover that would work as well as chain link but be cheaper? Anyone?

I am getting the fence for free. I get it from a buddy who has a fence business - it is all "take downs" that would otherwise go to the screap yard. I already have about 400' in place with about 300' to go.
I might try leaving some of the bank uncovered and available for turtles. If ther is too much mrat activity I can resort to other control measures.

Is it safe to assume the turtles (painted - thanks Norm) need the first 4' of bank same as the rats?