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I had my 1 acre pond built here in NE Ohio last year - completed in August - and it is 2/3 full of water. I am looking for advice on fish stocking and any other sage advice. This is a great site and I have learned a ton by reading the posts for the last hour.

This pond is an embankment type with no creek going into it - just runoff. My goal is a multi-use pond, with one end "wild" and one end having a small beach and a dock. Want to have some fish for recreational fishing only - low maintenance required. No feeding.

It is oval in shape, 8-10 feet deep except at the wild end I placed some trees and piled up some dirt, added rocks and there is an area that will be 4' deep to 0' created for habitat. I also threw in some busted up concrete, broken blocks, rocks, etc. I plan to let the weeds grow, in fact plan on adding duckweed, etc. to try and attract ducks.

I live in a rural area and there is a year-round stream running next to the pond and a small swampy area that will also help out. I also plan on planting trees and bushes to attract birds (not on the embankment). Any advice on flora welcome.

I was thinking BG and LMB. After reading here, I would also like YP. Wouldn't the YP be easier to clean and eat than the BG? I like that the YP prefer the deeper parts and the LMB the structure. Seems they could co-exist okay?

Currently there are lots of tads, some frogs and some swimming insects. Oh yeah, I have a 1/4 acre pond 15 ft away that has been there for 20 years and has BG in it and used to have LMB but I don't know if they are still there. Lots of frogs. Muskrats. Blue Heron. Possum. Raccoon. Kingfisher. Red Tail hawk.

Will this work? - Put BG in now, along with minnows. The pond should fill up with spring rain. Then add YP in the fall, and then LMB in the fall of 2007?

I have tried to create a lot of fish habitat with rocks, limbs, piles, holes and have added wire mesh and even some chicken wire thinking it would protect the fry. There will be significant vegetation in the water at the shallow end. I am embedding used cyclone fencing 8' high to about 12" out of the water(in the mud) to discourage the muskrats.
I am sorry to be so long winded but I am guessing you will need the detail to help me.

If you think my plan will work, or needs modification, I am also interested in quantities to put in and when. I was going to catch a few BG from the other pond and throw them in, but I now want to wait for advice.


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Welcome to the PB forum. Here are a couple of links with info on similar questions.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000153;p=2

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000153;p=2

You are off to a good start. I would not add duckweed to a pond as there are better plants for ducks that are a lot less invasive and trouble than duckweed. You might look into poondweed (Potamogetons).
















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Thanks ewest. I was struck by the comment "if you don't plan to harvest, don't stock". 2 thoughts - even if I don't plan to harvest, I want fish in my pond as part of the ecosystem. And maybe I am missing something - I love to eat and I love to eat fish. Maybe I just need to rethink this thing. I could see my small family eating 50 to 100 lbs of fish if making that sacrifice will help the pond.


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should I go ahead with transferring BG from existing pond to the new pond?


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Ohio Scott Robinson:
I could see my small family eating 50 to 100 lbs of fish if making that sacrifice will help the pond.
Scott, it does my heart good to see such a selfless person as yourself, willing to catch and eat fish if necessary, join the forum. \:\)

Your basic stocking plan outline sounds viable to me; with no YP experience I can't comment on their presence in a BG/LMB pond, but we have good numbers of both members with YP experience and threads discussing YP in ponds. Do a search for "Yellow Perch" or "YP" in the "Stocking a New Pond" and "Managing an Existing Pond" areas of the forum; this should give you some reading material to provide some answers and some additional questions about YP in your pond.

WRT stocking minnows, almost everyone here would agree that purchasing 5 or 10 pounds of Fathead Minnows ("FH") per acre of a new pond, once there is 4-5 feet of water (depth) in it, is a good practice. If you were contemplating wild minnows, be aware of the (strong) possibility of introducing species you really don't want in this manner.

As far as transferring BG from your existing pond, there are a number of arguments both for and against this practice:

Some Pros:
1) They're free
2) Transferring your own fish would (to me) be an enjoyable, soul-fulfilling activity
3) If the small pond is only 15 feet away, anything undesirable (fish disease or parasites, undesirable similar Lepomis (sunfish) species such as Green Sunfish {"GSF"}, nasty aquatic plants) in it that might be transferred to the new pond with a BG move will probably show up there anyway even if you don't move BG over.

Some Cons:
1) Depending on your knowledge of Sunfish and ability to identify them, "Bluegill" could acutally be a number of different species, including GSF (generally considered bad), Redear Sunfish ("RES", generally considered good), and others.
2) You could be moving fish diseases or parasites with the BG.
3) The cost of stocking fish for a new pond is small compared with the cost of a new pond ($Hundreds versus $Thousands or $10Thousands).
4) Most existing stocking "recipes" are based on fairly large numbers of fairly small fish. Transfer usually involves smaller number of larger fish, which has an affect of population dynamics in the new pond. This does not IMO rule out transfer stocking, it just means you need to read, study, and figure out how many larger BG you want to transfer ahead of time if your new pond is going to do the best it can.

Personally, I would do it, but only after figuring out all the angles mentioned above.

Some other comments:
1) Like ewest said, most of us don't consider Duckweed desirable. Visiting waterfowl will likely bring it in whether you decide you want it or not.
2) Consider buying some RES to go in with your BG (unless you're lucky enough to have some in the small pond to transfer). We Redear proponents like how they get bigger than BG, don't overpopulate, and like to eat snails which helps control many fish parasites in the pond.
3) If it were me I would be planning on putting in LMB no later than 1 year after the initial stocking, but that is dependant upon many variables including size/number of BG you put in, the YP question, etc. Study and possibly revise the LMB stocking plan.
4) Find out and decide what size fish of different species you have available and plan to stock - "when to put in fish" with small versus large sizes will get different recommendations.


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Oh, do you have any relatives in the fair state of Tennesee?


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Thanks Theo for the help. I will try those searches you mentioned. This site is a godsend to a novice like myself.

As a matter of fact I do have an Uncle just outside of Knoxville and dear friends in Nashville.

I did a Google search for pond hatcheries and the best one I came up with is in the Cincinnati area code area. Minimum $150 order delivered live in Ohio. If I ordered 3 times BG + FH; YP; then LMB that gets kinda pricey but I could live with it spread out over time. If I transfer some of my BG and can get minnows locally that would save a big expense.

I think I can identify the BG. I will look over the greenies online to see if I can tell the difference.

Can I go to the local bait store and buy minnows? Or should they come from a more formal source? Are there perhaps any closer to me? - I live half way between Cleveland and Erie PA. Can consumers get fish from Ohio DNR?

Another question - just to make sure - I am assuming it would be unwise to pump stream water into the pond to fill it more quickly. There is I think about 6 feet in the pond now with about 4 feet to go. The stream is running nicely 25 feet away.

I have a lot of questions. Appreciate your help.
Some additional questions:

Does it matter how deep I install structure for the fish? I have been putting it on the sloped sides of the embankement where the water will go from shore about 1/2 way down to the bottom - thinking the water would be no more than 6 feet deep where the structure is, and would be with or near vegetation. Would additonal structure in the deeper water be productive? There is one area that could reach 12 feet deep but most is 8-10'.

I will add some RES when I get my first fish order. I am considering HSB also at the time I get the LMB. Just for something different, a fighter, and to see how they taste.

speaking of taste - how do Channnel Cats taste? I was not going to introduce them but like I said, sacrifices have to be made.


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 Quote:
This site is a godsend to a novice like myself.
And also, I think, to experts, and for sure to know-just-enough-to-be-dangerous types like myself. \:D

 Quote:
As a matter of fact I do have an Uncle just outside of Knoxville and dear friends in Nashville.
We have a "Politically Incorrect" (his handle) Robinson here from TN. One of our cast of favorites.

 Quote:
I did a Google search for pond hatcheries and the best one I came up with is in the Cincinnati area code area. Minimum $150 order delivered live in Ohio. If I ordered 3 times BG + FH; YP; then LMB that gets kinda pricey but I could live with it spread out over time. If I transfer some of my BG and can get minnows locally that would save a big expense.
This sounds like Jones Fish; they did my stocking (2 orders, 3 separate trips, I and have been happy with them and the fish they sold me.

 Quote:
I think I can identify the BG. I will look over the greenies online to see if I can tell the difference.

Can I go to the local bait store and buy minnows? Or should they come from a more formal source? Are there perhaps any closer to me? - I live half way between Cleveland and Erie PA. Can consumers get fish from Ohio DNR?
I would worry more about wild or bait store minnows than about BG I'd identify myself. There are dozens (or more) species of minnnows, chubs, suckers, shiners, and finned phantasmagoria that you could get with bait minnows, plus fingerling common carp, etc. that happen to be the same size. IIRC ODNR has not provided fish for private ponds for a LONG time - way before I started pondmeistering.

There are some very useful fish ID threads here, with lots of photos, penned by those of us who like to smell a sunfish and guess what % of his genes came from a GSF. (HEY EWEST, REMEMBER ANY GOOD LINKS?). If you can successful transfer BG and BG only, perhaps you could do your purchasing in two steps: 1) FH minnows and RES, and then, later 2) LMB/HSB. It's something to think about and have forum members kick around or apart.

 Quote:
Another question - just to make sure - I am assuming it would be unwise to pump stream water into the pond to fill it more quickly. There is I think about 6 feet in the pond now with about 4 feet to go. The stream is running nicely 25 feet away.
Dam straight. The stream water has the same potential problems as wild minnow aquisition. I bet you will be full by the end of Spring; we don't seem to have rainfall variation problems in Ohio to the same extent many other states do (my 46 year experience on Buckeye weather).

 Quote:
Does it matter how deep I install structure for the fish? I have been putting it on the sloped sides of the embankement where the water will go from shore about 1/2 way down to the bottom - thinking the water would be no more than 6 feet deep where the structure is, and would be with or near vegetation. Would additonal structure in the deeper water be productive? There is one area that could reach 12 feet deep but most is 8-10'.
My views on structure placement are pretty close to yours, but I suggest you just go to "Creating Habitat" and read a lot of threads on structure. You will find many varied and good ideas and opinions there.

 Quote:
I will add some RES when I get my first fish order. I am considering HSB also at the time I get the LMB. Just for something different, a fighter, and to see how they taste.
I love my RES. We have one HSB (the only mistake Jones Fish made with our stockers, and a happy one for us) and he has outpaced the LMB in growth since day one. I will be adding more HSB to my pond in the fairly near future.

 Quote:
speaking of taste - how do Channnel Cats taste? I was not going to introduce them but like I said, sacrifices have to be made.
They taste just like chicken! :p

Seriously, they taste different from BG or LMB or Walleye or Northern Pike or ... Go to the grocery store and buy some catfish fillets (NOT "catfish nuggets" - those are belly meat and it is tougher and fishier tasting IMHO than the fillets) and see how you like them. I don't like CC as well as BG, but my kids like it about the same. We had a thread here a year or two ago with posters' favorite CC recipes - mine is my wife's Cajun Grilled Catfish.

CC are easy to clean once you learn to nail their heads to a board or tree before you skin them. IF you decide to get CC, go easy on their numbers (I'd recommend no more than 50/acre in a mixed species pond). They can get quite big, some people have trouble removing them, and they are the cheapest fish to order in large sizes for restocking in an established pond with full-size predators.


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OK I am figuring out what to do. Start with what you want, then create conditions for it to occur. I have re-thought what I want and now I want fish that taste great and are easy to clean. After looking at many of the posts, I am wondering if I would be happier with SMB instead of LMB as the dominant predator. Which one tastes better?

Seriously. In my memory bluegill are a lot of work to clean as compared to bass or perch. But then I was probably catching little ones?

I like the sport and the fight as much as anyone but like to eat even more. Does the Pond Boss have a special section for recipes? I subscribed to the magazine today. Now that I am infected with the bug, I will need regular doses of pond information.

I often purchase catfish at the supermarket and love it. Have had it Cajun style and I think it's great but my wife likes the hot spices less than I do. Do the CC compete in any way with the other game fish? I would not mind a bit putting a smaller number in than 50 if it meant only pulling one or two out once in a while, and restocking every other year or so. Say maybe 15 or 20?

Thanks again for your willingness to help.


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I like the idea of channel cat. Use a feeder and they grow quickly. With a feeder you could do a minimum of 50 and eat them quite regularly. There will always be a couple that are hook shy and will get large. For the most part you can start eating them the year after you stock them at 1 to 1.5 pounds. Add some bluegills for natural food and fun fishing.


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There is (almost always) a fish recipe in each issue of PB.

IMO small numbers of CC like we are discussing do not compete much with BG/LMB in a pond, even less so if fed regularly.

Thanks for the links, Eric.


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Thanks DD and ewest. I looked at the links and some other pics of greenies I found online. I yanked some out of my small pond and they appear to be BG, based primarily on the shape - 6" fish that it more "round" and not "long" like perch or bass. Other than that - hard to tell. I am going to transfer some. I am also going to order a deliver of live fish - BG, RES and minnows.

Do I need to wait for the pond to fill? Is there a better time than now. I think because of the leaves, grass, etc. in the water at the shore there is ample bug life. The frogs and tads have moved in, as well as the first muskrat.


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Now is a good time . If you are going to add some adult BG from the other pond (assuming you will add a few adult males and females say 10 and 20) I would only add half the # of BG suggested for normal stocking from the hatchery. But it is best to work out the full plan in advance (establish goals and plan to get there).
















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2/3 full with the Spring rains to go, volunteer insects etc. have had since last Fall to start showing up - You'll probably be OK to stock all the forage species you are thinking about (If it was just FH, I'd say Full Speed Ahead!). If we have a drought year, it could be bad, but that's true all the time.

Read some threads in the stocking section, get some other views on initial stocking timing.

P.S. Muskrats are usually considered undesirable; muskrats burrowing into the dam are ALWAYS undesirable.


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Here is one plan - thanks again for all the help - how does this work?
Transfer 40-50 BG from existing - there are plenty from 2" through 6" - mostly seem to be 3-4". Can I easily tell male/female? - Purchase 15 lb FH, 100 BG 2-4", and 100 RES 2-4".
Any concern about the new arrivals overwhelming the food source?
Then next spring (June?) - 100 LMB 2-4", 50 HSB 2-4", 50 YP 2-4" and 30 CC 3-5".
Again - about 1 acre when filled. Now must be 3/4 of the surface area, and about 6' deep.
You guys are great.


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I am putting in galvanized cyclone fence in the new pond to defeat the rats. Need to trap them in the old pond.
There are some surface insects on the water now. Also there is a lot of grass I planted on the embankement to minimize erosion, some now under water along with some decidous leaves. Along with the tree trunks I think the basic ingredients for insect growth are present. Crossing my fingers and going to order the fish soon.


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Read this link for telling male from female BG and RES an excellent thread started by Dr. Bruce and joined in by a host of PB experts. \:D It is much easier to tell when they are adults and very hard when small.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000214;p=1

Those #s of BG and FH will be ok for a 1 acre pond. Just be sure some of the transplanted ones are adult male and females. The predator #s for next year are high for the forage base esp. the LMB. Lets see what others say but my guess is a max of 25 LMB, 25 HSB, 30 YP and 25 CC. Adding them is easier than taking them out once they start reproducing.
















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If you haven't considered feeding, think about it. CC, HSB, BG, and YP can all be successfully feed without too much trouble, which would help out with your predator populations.


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Thanks again ewest and Theo. I printed out the images of male and female BG. I decided I needed to take a more careful measurement of the pond - oops! I used a 100' tape carefully and plotted it on 1/4" graph paper. What had been 160' x 250' = 40,000 once I got carefule and took into account the curves is now in actuality 29,300 SF - only 2/3 of an acre. ewest I can make my fish supplier's cut of $150 for free delivery with 10 lb FH, 50 RES and 50 BG (to go along with what I expect to be 30 BG of my own including mature female in time for the spawn). That is about 2/3 of what I had. I will put in more if you think the 2/3 acre will support them all and help with predator growth and reproduction next year.

Next year will be a problem tho. To make the minimum of $150 I would need to have 50 LMB ($1.35), 25 HSB ($1.35), 50 YP ($.99) and 10 CC ($.59). If I cut the LMB back to 25 I will fall below minimum $.

Trying to build a food chain beginning with a lot of structure - pallets w/chicken wire, rocks, logs, blocks, culvert pipes. Is it possible to generate enough of the smaller stuff to support more predators? Or do I just need more time for my ecosystem to develop? I seem to remember a suggested quantity of 100 LMB to an acre.

Theo - re: the feeder. I am trying to keep maitenance to a minimum. I will stay open minded though as I am now down with a bad case of ponditis. Who knows where it will lead. Know anyone looking for some used golf clubs? Or would they as suggested make great structure?

BTW, I like turtles. Can I employ them in helping manage the fish population?


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Yes do cut down on the fish as you noted. You could always 1)add the extra LMB to the other pond if it has none to help keep the BG under control 2) have them bring a few more BG/RES and /or FH in place of some LMB and 3) put in a few more adult BG from the other pond into the new pond next year. IMO it is easier to look at the population dynamics as they unfold and add fish later rather than stock to many to start off. If you can put in 10 adult male and 20 adult female BG in time to spawn this summer that will go a long way toward starting your forage base. Those plus the BG and RES and FH you are getting from the hatchery should be a good start. When you get ready to add the predators you can first make a choice at that time on additional forage needs.
















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100 small LMB per acre is a good start. Not all will make it and you will have to later cull. The other side is that a pond will usually support 100 lbs of predators per acre. A bass converts natural food (prey) at a 1 to 10 ratio. This means that a bass has to eat 10 pounds of forage or prey to gain one pound. That's where the balancing act comes into play.


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Ohio Scott Robinson:
Next year will be a problem tho. To make the minimum of $150 I would need to have 50 LMB ($1.35), 25 HSB ($1.35), 50 YP ($.99) and 10 CC ($.59). If I cut the LMB back to 25 I will fall below minimum $.

Theo - re: the feeder. I am trying to keep maitenance to a minimum. I will stay open minded though as I am now down with a bad case of ponditis. Who knows where it will lead. Know anyone looking for some used golf clubs? Or would they as suggested make great structure?
Scott:

Since we have have tens of thousands of posts by thousands of members, I can't say it has never happened. But you may be the first to complain that you can't figure out how to spend enough money on a pond. \:D

Seriously, I think around that $150 minimum wrt every actual and potential fish order myself. IMHO you will revise next year's order in your head more than once before you make it. I have personally revised a stocking plan for a pond I don't even have yet three times in the same day. If no other solution presents itself, you could bump up the size of some of the fish one notch to make it over $150. I think with a full year head start, the forage fish will be able to handle some predators larger than the smallest size.

As far as feeding goes: I feed regularly, but I do not have an automatic feeder. If one lives at or close to a small pond, the expense of feeders is not IMO necessary to enjoy many or all of the benefits feeding brings into the pond management equation. I am not sure from my reading of your posts whether or not you live at the pond, but it IS small enough to hand feed, I believe.

There are certainly benefits to using automatic feeders, and there are great, reliable feeders made and sold by outstanding people who post on the forum and advertise in PB magazine. God bless them, because it would be virtually impossible to handfeed large ponds (think of the workforce it would take to handfeed Richmond Mills !), or ponds that you can only visit on weekends, or if you work some weird shift hours on your day job (which most of us need to support our Ponditis affliction). But to feed a small pond and see if you will enjoy it and find it as relaxing and soul satisfying as I do (I got interrupted in the middle of watching the fish eat last night and it may have been the last straw that ruined my mood for the whole evening), all you need is a $15 or $20 bag of feed and 10-20 minutes time. If you stock CC and HSB next year, you should have two species that will take to the feed PDQ; give handfeeding a try.

Your ponditis may require a bigger budget as you discover the need for automatic feeding 'round the clock! ;\)


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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I think the biggest obstacle would be my job. As and HVAC contractor I go throughs spells of months at a time where I leave house early and come home late.
We do live at the pond, so that would not be an issue. I am assuming irregular feeding is worse than no feeding. Snow is only a problem 8 or 9 months of the year.
Why are turtles unpopular? I can dislike wildlife as much as the next guy (muskrats, Canada Geese, and Cowbirds to name a few) but turtles? Must be because they eat some of the fish?


2/3 acre pond 12 miles from that big pond we call Lake Erie.
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The only problem I have with turtles personally is when the burrows they dig into the banks collapse (most of my banks have a fairly shallow slope). But I have given up worrying about turtle control; they dig slow enough that for my 1 acre pond I can shovel dirt out of the pond onto their collapsed tunnels faster than they can dig new ones.

I think the most commonly perceived problem with turtles is fish eating.

Irregular feeding may not produce much eating activity since regularity helps the fish learn when and where to eat. Feeding a lot regularly and then stopping completely is probably a much bigger problem; it builds up a fish biomass total higher than the unfed pond can support and then pulls (part of) the food pyramid out from under it.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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