Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations How did the Northern ponds make it thru winter?

We've been hearing all winter the various trials and tribulations that southern folks on this forum were going thru this winter. They actually have something to report all winter long. Us nothern pond guys don't know what's happening to our fish until ice out. I'm happy to report that thanks to some prayer, good luck, and many tips from this forum I've made it thru another winter with fish intact. Only had 3 floaters when ice went out. Last year I had 2 floaters so I suppose you could say this year was worse than last but I'm sure happy. Ice just went out in the morning of April 9 and the BG started taking pellet food that evening. I starting catching fish on rod and reel the next day. Anyone know if fish that die during the winter will always float or could I have some sinkers that I never see? We all have a lot invested in our ponds and I'm on the edge of my seat each spring waiting for ice out.

Do I count as Northern enough to answer?

I saw very few dead fish this Winter, just 4-5 small BG fingerlings.

I started feeding yesterday; put in a new feedring today (and attributed low turnout to having sledge hammered 3 T-posts in to hold the feedring). I will feel better when I see a larger number of CC show up to eat; I only had 6 or so there today, while I expect 20-30.

I am also a little worried by the good RW my LMB have exhibited all Winter long. This is supposed to be a bass-heavy, big BG pond. My LMB are so heavy I wonder if large numbers of them have disappeared somehow. I found the skull and partial tail skeleton of one of my original stocker LMB Saturday. It must have been 15-16" judging from the head size, although there wasn't enough of it left to guess how it died.

The jury is still out on my little pond and I'm getting nervous about the verdict. Stocked 75 4-5" BG last fall along with the half dozen +/- small bass that found there way into the pond. To date, two floaters (BG) have been found. Surface water temps were approaching 50 early last week. I've been tossing a small amount of feed for the past two weeks and nothing has been hitting. One bass and one BG have been sighted but thats it.

In the bass pond I'm still finding an occasional bluegill and smallmouth either fugus covered, floating bloated, or laying on the bottom. Bluegills seemed to have taken it the worst. I'm finding a few largemouths like this too but very few.

In that same pond I'm feeding a few hundred largemouths every day now that are eating ravinously. Some have a little fungus on them -- primarily a small area of the fins, but not bad enough that they won't recover from it.

My theory is the fish that are not pellet fed are overcrowded and have overeaten their food supply, which allowed them to go into winter with low energy reserves. Additionally I believe they were stressed by super chill conditions caused by low temps and high winds that would not allow ice cover to form which actually insulates water temps a little. Extensive chara as reduced maximum depths so that may be a factor also.

Trout in the trout pond are doing great feeding twice a day. I will be starting up the well pump as soon as today, as even though water temps are not that high yet, I want to keep ammonia flushed out of the pond. And since the trout pond is overflowing into the perch pond I don't want to get the perch pond water temps high enough where when I do start the pump there is a sudden drop in water temp of the perch pond.

Bluegill in bluegill pond are feeding well on pellets just before dark. I lost a few of them this winter too but that seems to have stopped.

The 55 Perch in new pond that I just transferred a couple of weeks ago are feeding more and more on pellets. About 10 have dropped their egg strands. I started them out on rehydrated pellets ala Bill Cody's recipe.

BZ -- as I'm sure you know, winter started a little early and with snow this past fall. That often is a recipe for disaster in our ponds. When ice goes on early and cloudy, like this year, and then snow covers the ice, we often are in for trouble. However, this winter was mild for most of the months, and the snow cover cleared pretty well. Then, after a mostly mild winter, we had a cool March, and extended our ice season. Ice-out didn’t occur until the end of March/beginning of April. So, I was quite relieved when we had no winterkills in our area ponds that we manage.

I've had my ponds since 1998 and this was the first year that I didn't lose any fish on the bigger pond. One of my lined ponds iced over in early December, then got covered with snow. Two weeks later the ice came off and I found 400 dead YOY bluegill.

I saw one dead 17" LMB at this spring and that was it. We also had a massive die off of chara in the our pond due to a very strong febuary cold front. I estimate that 80% of the chara died off suddenly which in turn started a cold water algea bloom, this caused some concerns over DO levels which never did materialize. Other than that, things look fine, the cold water algea bloom that was going good has started to subside with the warmer weather.

I got out to my pond this past Sunday, April 9, '06.

Water temps were 52-53 degrees. Visibility was at about 10-12". I believe the low visibility was from heavy rains from a few days back.

No signs of any dead fish or fish kills.

I saw several Grass Carp hanging in some brush just under the surface, as well as a few LMB doing the same thing.

I fished with shiners and fatheads and caught:

-One SMB about 18" long

-Two Yellow Perch about 12" long

-One Bullhead about 12" long (who then underwent an experiment to see how long he could live on-shore)

I had a LMB on the line that was about 15" long, but he got off.

Also got to watch a large Heron for some time as we traded positioning between different ends of the pond.

I'm back in Perryton, TX now for the week. Can't wait to get back to the pond (uh, I mean "get back home" if my wife is reading this!)

PS: bz, I don't think anyone knows if winter-killed fish will float or sink. I've asked the same question before as I suspected a winter-kill two years ago.

Very interesting observation, Shorty/Steve. I didn't know that happened so suddenly with Chara. I learned something today, and appreciate the post!

I WAS UP NORTH TO OUR POND 3 WEEKS AGO, THE POND WAS ICED OVER EXCEPT FOR ABOUT AND 8-10 INCH WIDE LITTLE STREAM FLOWING INTO IT. AS I STOOD THERE WATCHING THE WATER FLOW I ACTUALLY SEEN ABOUT 5-6 LITTLE 2 INCH FISH TRYING TO SWIM UP THE STREAM. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE. WE WILL BE GOING BACK UP THIS WEEKEND. WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE FIND. HOPFEULLY NO FLOATERS.

I HAVE A QUESTION THAT MAY SEEM STUPID . DO FISH ONLY SWIM UPSTREAM? I HEARD THAT SOME FISH SWIM UPSTREAM TO SPAWN? DO THEY SWIM UP STREAM AND , SPAWN AND THEN DIE OR DO THEY SWIM BACK DOWN STREAM AFTER THEY SPAWN?

We had a very reasonable and somewhat mild winter in western Nebraska / eastern Wyoming.
We never did get more than a foot of ice cover on the ponds, and it was rarely covered by snow. Good ol “Wyobraska” winds kept ponds pretty clear. Stream (South Antelope Creek) usually picks up to about 300 gpm which also keeps ponds fresh.

New trout pond is working out very well for us. Trout readily went to pellet feed as you would expect. Fish are in tremendous shape.

LMB / BG pond constructed in 1993 looks to be a very pleasant surprise this year. I took a strole around this pond yesterday and did witness some very nice bluegill basking in the shallows. I would estimate many of the BG to be in the 7 to 9 inch range! (Which I consider a very good BG). A few nice LMB in the 14 to 16 inch range were also observed loafing with the BG. Small BG (<4”) were not observed? I question my own management?

HSB / YP pond to date has been disappointing. I have witnessed very little fish activity at this pond. I fished the pond about 12 days ago with bobber and fathead minnows…….not even a bite. I fished again about 3 days ago with small spinner bait and…….nothing.
I did notice two dead 8 inch HSB however. I hope to turn on the fish feeder when the water temp reaches 54 degrees and eventually see some HSB feeding activity.

I would like to personally invite any PB ers to join me on a fishing adventure to exchange ideas and thoughts. I can use all the help and advice I can get. Bruce this includes you and the eastern Nebraska crowd.

Thanks,
Ed

Personally I think it's great to hear your reports. It is amazing to me the vastly different experiences we've all had and I learn a lot hearing about them. Theo asked whether he qualifies as a northerner. Well, my thought was that if you can say anything at all about the general condition of your fish during the winter then you may not qualify as a true northerner. You know your in the north when all you can see of you fish for many months is whatever you can drag through a hole in the ice and you are on pins and needles waiting for ice out. However Theo, no one would ever want to exclude you from a converstaion so go ahead and consider yourself a northerner and welcome to the ranks. By the way, I've always wondered where the line is between those areas that ice over premanently in the winter versus those that get a few days of ice here and there. I envy when I read about guys who can observe their fish and even feed some during the winter. But in reading the above posts it is clear to me that there might be some advantages to having ice cover that I never would have dreamed of. Guess the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.

BZ:

I'm in S.E. Iowa, and have to be at about the southern extreme of what most would categorize as "permanent freeze" portion of the states. We normally have about 2-2.5 months of ice thick enough to safely fish through. (Say, 4-10 inches)

About 1 in 3 years we hardly have a month. This was an extreme year for us, in that we had maybe 2 or 3 weeks of reasonably thick ice, preceded by warm/cold spells where the ice would just get thick enough to be usable...and it would warm up or rain. Spring was long coming, and cooler than normal, but not cold enough to keep the ice.

I've fed just a handful of pellets half a dozen times over the past couple weeks...nothing touching them. The painted turtles are around, so it won't be long. I can't wait to "sample" my ponds, but I've gotta be a bit more patient. Maybe another week or so...but I'm turkey hunting this weekend, anyway.

Seen no floaters, but hardly ever see any in the ponds I fish around here anyway.

(Tears leaking out) I'd like to think that back when my Grandpa snuck over the border from Kentucky, with his four sisters hidden in a wagonload of pipefittings, he knew the day would come when his family would be accepted as Northerners. (sob)

I think your permanent vs. temporary ice line must move back and forth quite a bit from year to year, BZ. This year we had about 7 weeks of ice, in 5 separate periods over 3 and a half months. 2004-2005 was very similar. But the first couple of years I had a pond, it was more like 3 solid months.

Mostly I'd put Central Ohio below the line, much to the disappointment of my icefishing friends.

Theo, so it seems that ice fishing is kind of spotty in your area. Like I say, I envy those who don't have frozen ponds all winter cause I'd like to see my fish now and again. I like ice fishing but I'd rather fish open water any day. The norm for me is iced over by mid November and ice out in mid April, that's 5 solid months! But this year it only got to about 16 inches, some times I have over 24 inches. I don't see how the fish in my pond survive in that it is stocked very heavy compared to some of you guys. But I got my aerator and I keep the snow off as much as possible.

Coupla years back we had just got the bass pop up to a catch and fry size in our small lake/pond when we had a snowy winter. When the ice went out we had more seagulls than a MacDonalds parking lot. The kids took out the boat and reported dozens of dead bass on the bottom. Once the sun got to them they would bloat, float up and become seagull lunch. Haven't caught a bass since. Our lake has 75% shallow water(2-5')25%deep(30') with wild water lilies and great masses of Chara that die in the heat of August and float to the surface(the chara) as a stinking anerobic mess. I finally came up with a plan to remove these and will be stocking more LMB come summer. The ice should be all off in 3-4days. Pat

My labs brought 1 dead bluegill up to me a last week. I found one dead bass a few weeks ago about 12". It had a lure in its mouth so it had been swimming around that way for months. I tried feeding last week with no takers. I fed Monday after noticing the bass chasing minnows against the bank. The bluegills are taking pellets well. I seem to have a population boost in fatheads. I am guessing it has something to do with the addition of rip rap. I have a bumper crop of filamentous algae in this third year, hope the water warms soon to stock the tilapia.

There's another thing I wish I could do, stock tilapia. They sound like a great and easy solution to many algae and weed problems and good for forage and fish fries. Don't think they would survive here and the MN DNR won't let you stock anything that isn't indigenous to the area anyway. Absolutely no grass carp allowed anywhere either.

bz,

Come on down to Texas...we treat pond owners right. Tilapia...fine but stick to Mozambique. Grass carp...no problem just get a permit. Want to build a pond? Have at it....and the very best reason for moving to Texas...Tired of water turkeys stealing all your forage fish? Have your way with them, but get a permit first.

You know I've always liked Texas. Minnesota has always been a left wing democrat state and do you know I can't even fish in my own pond without having a fishing license and I can only catch my legal limit? I can't even legally move fish from one pond to another without a permit and inspection! I can't pump water out of my pond without a permit. Since I didn't want to spend the annual big bucks maintaining a commercial aquaculture license I had to get a wildlife pond permit and then they told me the shape it had to be and the depth structure. Couldn't make it deep. Of course if I had to abide by all these things I would never have a fishing pond so I'll leave what I really did up to your imagination. Enough whining.

Not sure if you can blame it all on politics. My state of Indiana is as red as it gets and we have some real stupidity down here.


Many of your pond restrictions are local.

As for having to have a fishing license to fish on your own private property that's nuts. How are they going to know though? They can't just barge in on your private property and demand a license can they?

Actually yes, in MN they can. Our CO's need no permission to enter private property but do need a warrant to enter your house. Less restrictions on them could be a good thing since we all want to protect our natural resources but on the other hand if they waste their time enforcing stupid rules that also sucks. I fully understand the need for good laws and good enforcement. I really don't think they would waste their time going after me on my pond cause they are generally pretty good guys. But if they came onto my property for some other reason and saw me fishing they could ask for my license. If I didn't have one I'd probably just get a warning depending on the guys mood. Believe it or not they even had the power to search cars, boats and ice fishing houses without permission or a warrant up until a couple of years ago when a lawyer decided to push the issue.

Cecil- Don't know about down south, but up here in Ontario they can. Our MNR tells me that I can't stock my pond without a permit and it can only be fish of their choosing. Also can't move fish from one body of water to another, so I can only stock fish from a hatchery, if I can find them. Didn't ask about permits when I dug my pond, (actually all I was doing was rearainging some topsoil in a low spot and got carried away)which is now about 15' deep with runoff. It has no outlet so I can only work on it in early fall but if it becomes classed as a "wetland" the red tape will flow. My other pond resulted when my driveway culvert "accidently" plugged up. It is now about 10'deep and running out the overflow that I installed. It runs into a lake so I can only stock it with fish OK for the lake(bass or brook trout).

It all comes from the concept that the crown (king) owned all wild animals. This is the law in most states i.e. the state owns all wild animals and can regulate them and there taking. All we have done is move the power from the king to the state but at least we can remove the government by the ballot box.

Here is the difference ... some populations are willing to exchange their freedom for some other promise and others are not. In Minn. the people are willing to make that trade and here if the state tried to do that the government would be removed. They know that here and in other states and by law allow private property to be exempted from some regulation. For example you don't need a license to fish a private pond but game laws (limits apply).

NY Farm pond rules:

Farm Fish Pond License

Prior to stocking fish in your pond, you should obtain a Farm Fish Pond License from DEC. The license allows the licensee, his immediate family, and his employees to take fish at any time, in any size, in any number, and in any manner as stipulated in his license. The farm fish pond license also serves as a stocking permit, eliminating the need to obtain a separate DEC fish stocking permit which is required to stock fish into any waters of the state.

The Farm Fish Pond License is free and is good for five years. You can obtain an application for the license from any DEC Regional Office.

Pond owner's should be aware that the laws governing fishing require all persons 16 years of age and older must have a fishing license except citizen-resident landowners and lessees or members of their immediate families actually occupying and cultivating farm lands when fishing on such lands. This means that guests or friends of the pond owner must have a license to fish the pond even though it is privately-owned. Laws pertaining to seasons, size limits and daily take also apply to owners of private fish ponds unless a farm fish pond license is obtained.


To stay on topic, I saw one BG, one bass and one hungry heron yesterday