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#6695 - 02/19/03 11:57 AM lily pads
Lake Vilbig - Al Kohutek Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Irving, Texas
Our lake currently has one bank with some spatter dock on it. To see the pictures go to the link below:

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4001548&a=30445124&f=0

These pads have been on our lake for about 8 years. They have not migrated to any other area of our lake and the area they are in is about a 12 x 12. These spatter docks were imported from Caddo Lake, TX.

Would there be any harm in adding a new type of water lily to our lake?

Do the fish benefit from them?

If so, what is the best lily to plant?

Are there any tricks on keeping the beaver, nutria, and ducks from pulling newly planted pads up?

Whay have our spatter docks not migrated to other areas of the lake

www.lakevilbig.org

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#6696 - 02/27/03 01:04 AM Re: lily pads
Bob Lusk Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 3120
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas
Spatterdock, eh?
Good plant for your lake. It's not invasive where you live because it only likes peripheral shallow water. Your water goes deep fast, places where spatterdock won't go. Good choice.
Adding a different lily type plant changes the equation, and the dynamics. You see, different plants have different requirements. For example, American lotus can grow anywhere the sun penetrates, and grow quickly. I worked a lake two years ago that was 75% covered with lotus. Too much shallow, fast growing plant life. Fragrant white water lilies, while less invasive, still grow in deeper waters than spatterdock. So, before transplanting, identify the plant and learn its growth characteristics.
Fish benefit several ways. Baby fish hide. Baby fish live longer, grow larger. Bass eat baby fish. Spatterdock good.
Pick another lily? Call a water garden shop, get a book on life histories of different lilies, and compare those plants to available habitat. Then, you can make the best decision. Also, talk to water garden types, ask them growth characteristics of different lilies. Some are tropical, some are semi-tropical. Some live three months of the year, some longer. Some bloom at night, some don't bloom at all.
Beaver, ducks, nutria and turtles pull up plants. Best successes I have seen are people who plant in containers, or beds, then cover the containers or beds with wire nets or fences called "exclusion" fences. Keeps creatures out, while plants establish.
Spatterdock hasn't migrated because it has no means. It was transplanted, and has probably grown to its maximum for that area.
_________________________
Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...

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#6697 - 03/04/03 09:50 AM Re: lily pads
Lake Vilbig - Al Kohutek Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Irving, Texas
Thanks Bob. You have a lot of good advice!

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#6698 - 03/04/03 10:29 AM Re: lily pads
Brad Bortz Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 85
Loc: Millstadt Il.
I like the looks of spattdock. Would this be a good choice for my lake. It's an old stip mine, Very deep with just a few shallow areas, currently the shallows have coontail and fillamentous alge, don't like that. But spatterdock is just what I would prefer to have. Any thoughts?

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#6699 - 03/04/03 11:19 AM Re: lily pads
Fletch Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 52
Loc: texas
you can rid yourself of the filamentous with a chelated copper. try cutrine plus or any other. the coontail can be killed with a salt of endothall. granular aquathall may be your best bet. i am sure kelly duffie will know more.

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#6700 - 03/04/03 03:09 PM Re: lily pads
Robert B Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Janesville, Wisconsin
Brad, I think that spatterdock prefers a good organic bottom to grow in, and will only grow down to about 4' deep. If you had the bottom for it, it will stay along the margins in the shallow water. It does provide excellent shallow water cover.

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#6701 - 03/04/03 06:17 PM Re: lily pads
Mike Robinson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 110
Loc: Richmond, Illinois
Nuphar advena (we call it Yellow Pond Lily) is a species of spatterdock that will grow in water up to about 6 feet. Plant it shallower in an area like Robert described, and it will spread out to it's limit.
_________________________
Mike Robinson
Keystone Hatcheries

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#6702 - 03/05/03 12:39 AM Re: lily pads
Brad Bortz Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 85
Loc: Millstadt Il.
Right now the shallow areas have dead leaves in it. Under the leaves there is gravel and rock, mixed in the mud. I was wanting to clean out the leaves, or when you say the spatterdock likes organic material, does that mean I should leave the leaves where they are? Also does the gravel provide a good bottom for spatterdock to grow and thrive? Thanks for the replies!!!

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#6703 - 03/05/03 07:46 AM Re: lily pads
Mike Robinson Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 110
Loc: Richmond, Illinois
It sounds like it would probably work, but it is not ideal. A soft silty bottom is best, but I have gotten a similar species to grow in a solid clay bottom before.

Another idea is to pot them...when we pot them for water gardens we use a mix of ~ 75% heavy garden loam & ~ 25% sand topped with gravel to keep the Koi out in a six gallon container (squat and wide is best...we use a 16" x 7" pot). You could cut some holes in the side of a container to let the roots spread out.
_________________________
Mike Robinson
Keystone Hatcheries

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#6704 - 03/05/03 09:22 AM Re: lily pads
Brad Bortz Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 85
Loc: Millstadt Il.
Thanks Mike for the good advice, as always! And thanks to the rest of the pondmeisters as well.

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#6705 - 03/05/03 02:56 PM Re: lily pads
Lake Vilbig - Al Kohutek Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Irving, Texas
I have a Wildlife Nurseries catalog and they sell aquatic plants for bass cover and cover for other fish. Some of the plants in the catalog that I am considering and researching are:

Redhead Grass, sometimes called Bassweed (Potamogeton richardsonii)

Long-Leaf Pond Plant (Potamogeton nodosus) (P. americanus, B&B)

Wapato Duck Potato or Arrowhead (Sagittaria latifolia)

Deep Water Duck Potato (Sagittaria rigida)

Pickerel Plant (pontederia cordata)

Arrow-arum or Wapee Duck Corn (Peltandra virginica)

Has anyone ever had any good or bad experiences with any of these plants?

Is there any worry about these plants taking in a 127 acre lake?

What about the plant Elodea (Elodea canadensis) (Anacharis canadensis, N.F)? This plant looks a lot like hydrilla. Does it have the same negative impact as hydrilla?

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#6706 - 04/18/03 11:22 PM Re: lily pads
andrew davis Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 185
Loc: Carolina's
I'd think twice about putting spatterdock on any lake, while spatterdock is a waterlily subspecies it is a quite fast rambling plant, left a long time it will choke a pond and create a difficult problem long term, compared to hardy waterlilies and hybrids. Fortunately it seems you have them in a sheltered area which they havent been able to drift out of .

Its a bit like comparing daffodils, to dandelions.... The waterlilies have some great features for creating good shade and shelter for fish, though in their early days you may need to put mesh cages over the first crowns while they get up to speed and make numbers, ducks will try to chobble on the juvenile foliage early in the year

Large waterlilies you might take a shine to are: Gladstonnia, Richardsonii, Attraction, Rembrandt, Mayla, Sunrise, Sulphurea... Its a good idea to choose large waterlilies with good reputations for high flower to leaf ratios rather than 'whats cheap' if your priority includes wanting something to 'look good' as many water lilies have quite poor flower characteristics

As for cat tails, they are seriously invasive plants, worst characteristic is their thick strong tunneling rhisome... you could consider small forms of cat tail such as angustifolia or laxmanii, which won't present such a difficult problem to trim when they need thinning out.

Theres quite a lot of aquatic plants to improve the diversity of a lake or pond, when you start searching a few good varieties to start with, say, in a search engine like google, you will soon start locating plenty of good information and sources for interesting stuff that does what you want.

Regards, Andy

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#6707 - 04/20/03 10:44 PM Re: lily pads
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12619
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Andy - I like your knowledge, experience, aquatic plant philosophy and style. You will are a welcome additiion to this site. BC
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Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

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#6708 - 04/21/03 10:29 AM Re: lily pads
andrew davis Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 185
Loc: Carolina's
awww thanks for the kind words Bill, I've been into water gardening as a plant collector for thirty years or so, with a fascination for what improves water quality.... having just found this site I'll be all agog to boggle at the sort of ponds you guys get to play with \:\)

Regards, Andy

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