Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations All female bluegills in a pond?

Bruce, Bill Cody, anyone else,

If I remove as many female bluegill from my feed trained bluegill pond as I can, to attempt to keep it primarily males, and put them into an adjacent pond with no male bluegills will they have problems with reabsorption etc. come spawning time or will they just pass the eggs?

I do know my female perch will pass their eggs even with no males, or not enough males around, as I have seen lots of unfertilized egg strands in that pond. However yellow perch are an all together different fish with, as we all know, different spawning habits.

I'm thinking it wouldn't be a big deal to catch female bluegills and chuck them into the female only perch pond that is just 20 feet away after some accimization to the lower water temps if necessary. It will be a little cooler overall in the female only perch pond, but still in the mid to low 70's in summer.

I'd rather not put the female bluegills into the bass pond as they may not get to feed as well as they could without the bass.

This would give me greater control on breeding too, and as a taxidermist I have seen some dandy female bluegills well over a pound.


Maybe instead I should put male bluegills into the female only perch pond and keep the original pond as a broodstock pond. Even with the perch I'm sure there will still be some fry I can trap out of the pond, and I only need a few hundred a year. Seems it would be more of a sure thing to cull out the males during spawning time vs. females and immature males that could be mistaken for females. And it would also preclude the problem of egg bound females.

Thoughts?

Pervert!

:p

You're right they may get sexually frustrated. Maybe I can get their minds off of it by periodic electroshocking and running in some cold water! He He!

My recreational pond has over 500 male bluegill and I've apparently not made any mistakes, since there haven't been any fry or YOY showing up.

The first few years we were doing this we made it a game to guess bluegill sex before fileting. When I guessed male I was right 100%. That, obviously, ain't bad. When I guessed female, I was wrong at least 10% of the time, which is, unfortunately, 10% too many. I'd be really concerned that an all female pond would end up with either one error, or you'd have to be so incredibly cautious that you'd never end up with any numbers to speak of.

All female is do-able, but dangerous.

Bruce,

That's the conclusion I came to once I got through composing my query. It will be male bluegills into the yellow perch pond then.

I think the male only bluegills will do fine with female only yellow perch. I believe Bill Cody says they are actually more agressive than the perch, lead them to the floating feed, and do fine together. As long as they eat like pigs like my trout I'll be happy.

Who knows maybe a change of plans due to not all male bluegills in the bluegill pond may have been a blessing in disquise. It wouldn't be the first time I lucked out due to a happy accident. I'm sure as hell not a scientist.

Luck or not, Cecil...You've raised some of the best fish I've ever seen. You're off the chart!!

Ah Shucks!

Plus, guys, -- remember the female mimics! Those are the small males that look like females so they can sneak next to a pair of spawning bluegills, add some milt, and not get chased away by the big parental male. I don't know how you'd ever avoid them in a female-appearing pond.

Dave - could one sort out females only in the 8-9 inch range to make sure they are only females? Or do cuckholders and sneakers still appear to look like females as the get bigger and grow older?

Good question/good thought Shorty!! I don't know the answer to that. I suspect you are right. The cuckolders and sneakers supposedly have short life spans and never get big. However, in our work, we only defined sneaks/cucks as mature males of small size. Mother Nature is funny about keeping things going -- I wonder if a small, mature male ever gets to "change his mind" and grow big? If so, I'd expect him to change to the parental male coloration, so your thought again probably would be valid. As usual, my conclusion is I don't know. Dang.

Dang Dr. Dave - I thought you knew it all.

Any thoughts on any behavioral differences between male and female BG? I bring this up simply because I have noticed that in our pond in the 3-4 weeks before the first BG spawn I can regulary catch mostly male BG near the bank and I can catch mostly female BG out in open water with slip bobber in the middle on nowhere. Even after they start to spawn this holds true for a month or two. Fish shallow near the bank and catch 90% males, fish open deeper water and catch 90% females. Keep in mind that most of the BG I am talking about are in the 9-10" range and telling the difference is fairly simple.

Well, Steve, it sure sounds straight-forward. Genetically speaking, it's typically to the advantage of most male fish to arrive early on spawning grounds and leave late. That way they "maximize" their chances of passing on their genes to future generations.

Take spring walleye spawning time for example -- the males are always there, and the females only stop by at the right time (i.e., when the eggs are ripe and ready to spawn ).

The other little tidbit is that for many fishes, the males actually build their testes by fall, and don't increase any more. Females, however, often finishing ripening their ovaries in late winter and early spring. We studied that intensively in northern pike in one SD lake, and it really was true. I think it's also true for yellow perch. The females are caught a lot more than males during ice fishing, especially in late winter. They are still ripening their ovaries and probably have greater energy intake needs. Of course, not all fish are spring spawners, but the generalization above applies to many of those that are.

So, in general, what you say makes perfect sense.

Thanks Dave - it might help Cecil by simply focusing attention on where to fish for mostly females at certain times of the year. Fishing near the spawing beds would likely produce more cuckholders & sneakers.

My experience on catching male/female bluegills is identical to Steve's. Near shore, almost all males, out a ways, almost all females. This goes on for several weeks.

I appreciate the input from all of you. I have made up my mind. Only moving definite males to the female only yellow perch small pond. Too risky to attempt to have only female bluegill in that pond.

Additionally the female only yellow perch pond will only be planted with large definite female perch loaded with eggs that I already had for a year or two. This is vs. the new ones I get annually that are allegedly sorted to be all females. Apparently at least a few males are getting through by the supplier as I do have some small perch present in the bass pond. I don't blame him though as it is difficult to sort fish when the water temp is in the upper 30's to low 40's and the wind is howling! At $1.50 a piece for 9 to 10 inch fish I shouldn't complain either.

No problem with some reproduction in the bass pond of yellow perch, and no problem with some bluegill progency in the original bluegill pond. Predators will be high in both ponds (female perch in original bluegill pond) and lots of bass in the bass pond where there is some perch reproduction.

I should be able to trap net and sein my bluegill and perch in the future from natural reproduction and help them along in tanks or cages. Predators and electroshocking should keep numbers managable. But I can also have single sex ponds for both at the same time. Maybe have my cake and eat it too?

Guys I have been out of town working and have not been able to post and only read for about 3 days and then only about 15mins. a day. Yuck !!! I could not let this thread flounder without saying go look at the Neff links in Theo's longhair topic below it has a world of info on the subject. I see I have several PM's that I can't get to but will try to reply tomorrow late. There is more on the subject but I can't get it now. A lot on alt. spawning and effects on size and number and stunting and population dynamics.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002154

I think that ewest had better get his priorities straight!!!

I mean, acting as if work was more important than Pond Boss???

Yes, it's pure sacrilege.

OK guys, I thought about it over the weekend and think there is a way to do an all female BG pond without inccurring a whole lot of risk.

The key to doing it is to get your female BG from the right place in the right size, very large. Obviously a set up of low density females will inccur less risk than trying to do a high density situation with a lot more individuals. This would also be better suited to a small pond rather than a larger one.

What I would do is look for someone that has a pond that has had an over abundance of LMB year after year for a very long time where BG between 2" and 8-1/2" are noticable absent and the BG population is well below its carrying capcity. All mature BG should have very positive WR's due to a lack of overcrowding. I would start with stocking 30-60 female BG in the 9" range where there is no mistake of accidently stocking a male cuck/sneaker. I am guessing that most of us might know someone who has a problem pond with an over abundance of LMB. :rolleyes: This would be a great place to get some all female BG for an isolation/growth expirement. So, does anyone want to give it a try and see just how big they might get?