Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Sandbass reproduce in 100 acre lakes?

We have a small 100 acre pond that sandbass were put into a couple of years ago. At least 350 mature sandbass were put in during a one year period during 2003.
The argument is “are the sandbass reproducing?”
I say that the question cannot be answered just because people are still catching sandbass every once & awhile.
My question is what would be a definitive way of knowing if they are spawning in this lake since I have read where the average life span is 3-4 years for sandbass but they can live up to 10 years.

A Texas native, I see.

If mature sandbass or "White Bass" were stocked in 2003, that means they are class of 2001 or before. If these fish were aged by evaluating annuli on their scales, they would be considered either age-5 or older as of January 1, of this year. Assuming they were stocked after their typical spawning period in 2003, then their progeny would have come into existence in either 2004 or 2005, meaning they would age at age-1 or age-2. A local biologist would not have any difficulty teaching you how to collect some scale samples, and would not have trouble differentiating between fish that are age-5 plus, vs. age-2 or age-1.

Besides the obvious differences in size, this simple test would allow you to determine if you are having successful reproduction. If you have an adequate substrate, believe me, 100 acres is plenty big enough for white bass reproduction. White bass are fond of flowing, moving water, but in the absence of such, will willingly use rocks or brush on wind-blown highly oxygenated shoreline areas. The main prerequisite is a situation where the eggs do not become silt covered and/or poorly oxygenated.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

Nice post, Bruce.

I could not for the life of me remember which Morone species "Sandbass" were.

Nice size lake!

The Morone chrysops (Rafinesque, 1820)or White bass breed in the spring (usually May) when the water temperature rises to 16°C (86.4° F). Adults form schools (sometimes of only one sex) and meet other schools at their spawning areas in tributaries of river or lakes, or choppy water near shorelines. The homing ability of white bass brings many individuals back to the same breeding site year after year. The spawning takes place over a hard bottom of sand, gravel, or rubble. Several males, usually three, escort the female and they swim fast back and forth over the site while the fish release their eggs and sperm. The fertilized eggs sink to the bottom and stick to the gravel or sand. A given population will spawn for 5-10 days before returning to deeper water. A single female can produce an incredible number of eggs, anywhere from 250,000 to almost a million! Embryos develop very quickly and hatch in 2-3 days, depending on the water temperature. New hatched embryos stay in the spawning area for several days while they begin to develop fin rays and a functional digestive system.


Spawning Habits (short version) - Male white bass migrate upstream in large schools to a dam or other barrier in early spring, followed shortly by schools of females. Spawning occurs in moving water over gravel shoals or a hard bottom. Large females may lay as many as half a million adhesive eggs that stick to rocks and gravel. If no water current is present white bass have been known to spawn on wind-swept sandy beaches. After spawning, they abandon their eggs and provide no parental care. Fry hatch in only two to three days.

An article is in the works on fish aging methods for the PB mag. A good reason to subscribe and learn how to age fish on your own and why it is important.

Here is a link to all you want to learn about white bass (Morone chrysops ).


http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3308

Billy Bass, good job. However, I would question the spawning time and water temp. I haven't fished for them in some years but remember colder water and earlier "runs" up creeks and rivers. Quite a few guys I know are checking Denton Creek now. They tell me they are hoping for a cold front to get the fish to bite.

http://www.bio.utexas.edu/courses/bio354l/Projects/1999/Peterson_Landon/

Reproduction / recruitment / age and growth:

-Spawning occurs once every year, from April to June in turbulent areas of rivers over gravel or sand at depths of 0.6 to 2 m; or, in lacustrine populations, at windy points of shorelines where wave action mimics stream flow. The optimum temperature for spawning is 17 to 23 degrees celcius. * 23 degrees Celsius = 73.4 degree Fahrenheit

-Males usually mature by age III (three winters) with some maturing at ages II or I, while most females mature at age III. The minimum length for maturity is roughly 220 mm for males and 260 mm for females.

-The eggs are adhesive and demersal, averaging .81 mm in diameter. Incubation takes around 4.5 days at 14 degrees celcius, 77 to 98 hours at 16 degrees celcius, and roughly one day at 26 degrees celcius.

-Fecundity increases with female length and weight, more than age, and usually ranges from 61,700 to 994,000.

-Average growth is faster in the southern states, and growth during younger stages is increased with increased temperature. Females typically grow faster than males. The mean calculated total length (in millimeters), and weight (in grams) at each annulus of scale development are shown here:

Well, that beats me. Guys I talk to say they are up in the creeks now. If that is right, then they will stay there for months waiting for the water to warm enough to spawn.

Doesn't make sense but I'm not about to argue with TPWD. However, I will make some further inquiries.

Dave :

With the recent warm weather it could be warm enough in shallow water for the start of migration to spawn. Recall that Lusk found 2 week old BG in one of his pond survrys last week ( that sounds way early to me). I noticed a few BG in one pond polking around the BG beds last week.

White bass have been moving up Trinity River above Lake Livingston for some time, and also in the tributaries feeding lake Houston, East Fork of San Jacinto River. They always move up in Feb. and early March, but dont move back to the main lakes until May. I also questioned the timing, but, as stated, the males move up first. I never trust much fish talk that speaks in terms of Celsius, mm, and such, although I'm an engineer.

Here's another way to find out if white bass have spawned.
Take several shoreline seine samples in late April, early May, and look for babies. Seine the upper reaches of the lake, especially nearest creeks.
Also, seine sandy beach-type areas. If there are babies, you'll catch a few.
White bass young have been found a few miles north in Lake Kiowa, a 570 acre static lake.

Sounds kinda like fuzzy math to me. Sand/white bass move up into the creeks (around here) at this time, end of January or first of February. They spawn late April or early May; 2 or 3 months of just kinda hanging around. They can't really drop their eggs earlier or the eggs would get covered up by silt. Water temps and sunshine of late April or early May make good sense for hatching. I always figured that when I go catch them stacked up in the creeks in February and don't catch them much later than middle of March that the spawn was over. Nothing about it ties together and I'm missing something.

Dave :

Fish don't care about our calendar only theirs. Different locations and water temps and weather (rain/inflows). Looks like another rolling spawn.


Comparison of Creel Statistics for River and Reservoir Components of a Texas White Bass Fishery


White bass Morone chrysops rank among the top
five sport fish sought by Texas freshwater anglers
(Ditton et al. 1991).

Lake Buchanan is a 9,312-ha impoundment of
the Colorado River. The Colorado River extends
for some 200 km upstream of Lake Buchanan before
reaching the dam of another reservoir. A number
of private fishing camps are located along the
river; these camps provide access to the public for a fee. Anecdotal information indicates that substantial fishing pressure and harvesting of white bass occur at these camps during the white bass spawning eason.

Our survey of the Lake Buchanan white bass
fishery spanned the period from February through
April 1996 and 1997.


Field procedures.—Roving creel surveys were
conducted daily from February 1 through April 30
in 1996 and 1997. This period encompassed the
spring white bass spawning migration. The study
area was divided into three regions: river, upper
reservoir, and lower reservoir.

EWEST, I can understand migrating up rivers over a couple of months period; then returning to the big water of lakes after spawning. And, I have fished from some of those river camps in the early Spring.

I think and question more in terms of creeks and the water temps in those relatively shallow waters. When the upstream spawning migration starts, the fish move upstream and stack up at shallow or obstructed places. Due to hostile water temps, this genetic disposition appears very premature to me. I have caught them in less than one ft. of water with air temps in the teens. In those days, I wasn't curious about actual water temps.

My only thought has to do with Texas waters. If someone has experience in other States, I hope they will chime in.

Sand/white bass are found in virtually every public lake in the state. However, there is only one natural lake in this state. All of the rest are created for power generation and municipal usage and consumption. I'm sure there are more dammed creeks than rivers. Darn near every city has a municipal lake. That tells me that every naturally occuring fish in the state started out as a creek or river fish. As the only native fish that spawns in running water, I guess they follow their genetic disposition to look for running water to spawn. In the absence of a creek or river offering an inflow, they have adapted to spawn on windswept sides of lakes. Striped bass, though not native, seem to stack up below dams on rivers in the Spring. I wonder about their cross; the HSB.

Now I see the diff. in timing. The Colorado and Buchanon has much colder water than East Tx. lakes, so they must migrate later.
Ewest, what about "The Rez" and N. Miss lakes?
when does the migration take place?

My Grandpa always told me that the white bass spawning was moving towards it's peak when the lilacs bloomed. Turns out that every time I've been catching white bass in Nebraska rivers it's always true.

BM :

Link below covers the whole 9 yards on WB in Miss.

http://www.mississippigameandfish.com/fishing/bass-fishing/MS_040502/index.html

Thanks, Ewest. I could have figured the Tenn. River with all the dams would be good, but I never would have guessed that Big Muddy would be a white bass hotspot.

What about Ross or rivers in the Southern part? Do they hold whites?

BM :

Most of the rivers in the south part of the state (excluding the Miss. and Tenn-Tom) are small, shallow and slow. They have some but not a lot of white bass.

What's the problems or comments on putting white bass in a pond? Just curious, because these are tasty critters. Are they like crappie in that they are both predator and prey and takeover or else?

I can't really think of any problem putting them in a pond. The real problem in my mind seems to lie in the fact that their preferred feeding method, which is to school up with large numbers of other whites and corral pelagic schools of shad or alewives, isn't consistant with all pond settings. In many pond settings a white bass is likely to encounter difficulty with efficient feeding. Slow growth might be the result. White bass aren't nearly as likely to utilize pelleted feed, so you're left with a slow growing fish. The smaller the water body size, the more likely white bass are to have problems with reproduction. Generally speaking, ponds do not have an inflow with enough volume to keep eggs oxygenated. Also smaller (maybe less than 50 acres??) ponds don't usually have enough surface/wind agitation to create an oxygenated shoreline spawning opportunity.

I don't think anyone believes that whtie bass won't live in a pond, it's just that they probably won't thrive, and their biomass could be better spent on species more suited for that kind of environment.

I know people who have placed adult white bass in their ponds and are really happy that there is the chance to catch one because they are scrappy and tasty, but that should be your primary goal if you choose to make any stocking effort.

You could make an analogy to the landowner who has pen raised pheasants planted in a draw the night before hunting. It can be tons of fun if you're wanting to see a kid, or your great uncle get a shot at a bird. Who could fault anybody for that?? But in the long run it's probably not the same thing as creating shelterbelts, foraging and nesting opportunity in a region that supports pheasants. To each his own.