Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations pay lake as a business

has anyone had any experience running a fee fishing lake and fishing contests? i,m hoping to start up two fishing lakes[2 acres and 5 acres]that used to be pay lakes but have been closed for the last four years. thank you

I've never done it but closely observed a couple who have. I thought about it, studied it and talked to owners several times. My random observations in Texas and things to watch out for:

Hard work and dealing with the public. You have to have employees, seines, waders, scales, cleaning stations, a way to get rid of guts and floaters; lots of things. I want to emphasize really hard work and dealing with the public.

To make it a real retail business, 5 acres is way too big and 2 acres is stretching it. 1/2 to 3/4 acres is about right. Either would be OK if they are long and skinny. You want people to be able to get to the fish.

It's a put and take deal for channel cats. Lots of bigger fish mortality from hauling stress, bad hookups, etc.

Rent inexpensive fishing gear to customers and sell bait. Charge by live weight and have a cleaning fee. Charge a fishing fee. Sometimes the fish just don't bite. Don't filet fish. Just skin, gut, and take the head off. People get pissed about meat loss from a filet. You have to collect and render sales taxes. Dealing with the public.

The guys I talked to about it were buying mature fish out of Arkansas and hoping customers caught them before they died from hauling stress. Some floaters every morning. Very risky.

Enforce a no throwbacks rule. Customers want to catch "just one more". Then they see the size and figure the cost. Uh-Oh. That fish will probably die or be uncatchable. Either way, you lose money. Dealing with the public.

Water quality is a huge issue so you need to be able to drain and refill. Algae can cause an off taste which means a pissed off and lost customer. Dealing with the public.

Predators like water turkeys can be a real problem; mostly early in the morning.

One guy was hugely successful because he was in an urban location and accepted food stamps. Sometimes in the spring, people were shoulder to shoulder. But, he went out of business and I don't know why. I saw a dandy fist fight between customers there. She whipped his butt.

I'm not sure whether you would have FDA considerations. I expect you would.

Another guy I knew did all the above and sold stocker fish. I bought my initial bluegills and fatheads from him. He also raised tilapia and sold them, cleaned, to the local restaurants. He was a good guy and finally sold out and retired. The next couple of owners didn't last long.

I'm trying to figure out some plusses and just can't. Maybe it's seeing an urban kid smile from ear to ear when he catches his or her first fish.

To research it, go to state web sites like Mississippi and others. Drive to Arkansas and look things over. Raising fish has become a cottage industry there. Lots of fish dealers buy their stockers from Arkansas.

Dave- couldn't he create a long skinny pit for fishing and use the 5 acre and 2 acre lake to raise his own CC for stocking in the fishing area? It would seem that self reliance and propagation would be the best way to provide the fish. I have no practical experience so my input is essentially worthless but I wanted to provide something positive. I wish they would have had a pay lake around here before my grandmother died. She loved to fish and got me started when I was 4 years old. I tried to find a pay lake to take her but was unsucessful. I bought this place because it started as a dream to build her a pond and now has become my dream but too late for her. Would that be enough water to grow CC for stocking? Maybe you don't want people lining the banks, if you can eliminate the middle man providing you with adult fish, you could make more money with fewer people fishing. Just some inexperienced questions and observations.

Somerset's pond is actually within about 10 miles from my pond.

We have talked via phone. I think he was more interested in a type of "fishing club" where there would be a limited amount of members, gated access etc.

Somerset, after our phone conversation, and before you posted this, ewest posted a link (to which Dave D. refers) and the link has a fact sheet about pay-to-fish lakes. I'll have to find that link.

Dave had lots of good points. I will add a couple more. Liability. When (not if) someone gets hurt or sick (a claim the fish was bad) it will cost you. You may be able to find insurance (business insurance is not like homeowners ) but it won't be cheap when you are dealing with the public in outdoor activities. If you live on the property and claim homestead exemption in some states you lose that exemption when you run a business on it. If the property is mortgaged as recreational or home property then turning it into a business can be a violation of the loan/mortgage and many contain an assignment of rents and profits -- all income goes to the bank to apply against the loan.

Here are some links to commercial catfish raising FYI.

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=3

Here is a fee fishing link - just for Sunil

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=27

Ask and you shall receive. Low and behold, the link appears out of nowhere.

You might also consider an arrangement with a club like The American Fish & Game Club (formerly the Great Texas Bass Club). The group, which I joined about 7 years ago before I got my own place, contracts with private land owners and charges members to fish the lakes. Obviously, the land owner gets a cut from each day or half-day a member fishes at his lake. The group is very conservation-minded, and works with the lake owners to limit the number of fisherman (usually no more than 2-4 per day) and make sure the lakes are not over-fished. Members are usually good fisherman (no live bait allowed) and take extra care to leave the place cleaner than when they got there. Here is the link:
www.gtbc.com
Just a thought...

Here are two other links you might try.
www.supremebassfishing.com
www.americanfishandgame.com

Ponds, here's the problem as I see it with the 5 acres. Let me digress. I started to buy a pay lake and tried to analyze and look at it from all angles. You are essentially reselling fish that you want customers to catch. Thus, it becomes a retail business where you want to have a quick inventory turnover and your inventory needs to be dumb and never hook shy. Like all retailers, you have to be able to control the inventory and assure that it has a short shelf life.

Customers want to catch a real keeper fish that they will never be able to catch at the lake. Thus, a fish that you purchase at 5 pounds and becomes a happy 10 pounder is not your goal. So, you have to occasionally be able to drain or seine the pond. They are built with this in mind. Non catchable fish become dressed fish for sale to customers when the fish just don't bite.

Raise your own? Not a bad idea and it sounds good but CC have very poor recruitment in any kind of setting. After, over 20 years of trying to raise and and catch fish, I still find that I can buy them a lot cheaper than I can raise and catch them. So can the pay lake guys.

"After, over 20 years of trying to raise and and catch fish, I still find that I can buy them a lot cheaper than I can raise and catch them. So can the pay lake guys."

This is the part that only experience will teach me. In my daydreams I am catching 10# fish. I never dreamed they would cost me more than market price! ARG Oh well, it's still fun!

Ponds :

You are right it is a lot of fun. DD is right also on pay fishing ponds as a business. Trying to compete with the commercial catfish growers ( a billion $ business) is like a small store competing with Walmart. One can try it but the odds of success as a business are not good and even if you survive the return on investment is not worth the risk and headache.

Somerset the guys here have covered a lot of good points. We have two pay lakes here at the hatchery, and both are under 1 acre. Ken's dad ran them up until his death a few years back, but we plan to open them again this Spring.
Few points to add:
1. Cover your rear with insurance and/or have a legal waiver for each angler to sign that releases you from any and all legalities.
2. Search your area to see "what people want to catch" before stocking. This will eliminate some wasted money. For example we have one pond of bream and bass, and we have a second pond that is cats only.
3. Under no circumstances let anyone bring in any outside bait. You could ruin your pond with bacteria and parasites brought in from "wild" fish used as bait.
4. Offer ice, snacks, drinks, fish cleaning, ... for an additional charge.
5. Charge an entry fee and then a per lb fee. Have a few gimmicks to lure the public in. For example: "$10.00 paid to anyone who can catch the albino brothers (two albino cats)".

I am sending you a private email of the flyer that I have been working on for our pay lakes. Maybe it will help you with weighing the pros and cons.

Good luck!

Have a few gimmicks??? to LURE the public in ...Now I know for SURE that ken Holyoke NEVER uses gimmicks ...........caught ya debb

Dude I created the flyer. Ha!!! You know nothing my little friend.

AAAhhhh so it is YOU who is tricking buyers around there .......Just kidding Deb...

Nice signature, Deb. Got my mag. for Christmas.
Hey, how are the "Crawzillas" coming along?

Burger at first I was like huh? Then I was like oh! I realized you were referencing my monster crawdad experiment. Brick wall baby, brick wall! Still trying to get past the fertilization inside the exoskeleton. 1000 lbs of magnetic pressure only left me with crawdad juice. I like the name though! Can I borrow it?

I like the name though! Can I borrow it?

Everything has it's price. How bout some of those brim thingies? Dont forget the alfalfa for the crawdads. I'm sure Bobod aka Bobguillory? can weigh in. Sorry, didnt mean to insult your intelligence; I know you are a biologist. Just faking my knowledge; hard to do on this site.