Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
mypeoples, Hammertime75, DavidL61, Bearman, awlakes
15492 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15492 Members
36 Forums
35707 Topics
486515 Posts

Max Online: 1039 @ 03/28/13 02:44 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24027
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19377
Dave Davidson1 13433
Bill Cody 12398
Who's Online
17 registered (Redonthehead, TGW1, snrub, Dave Davidson1, Zep, anthropic, jpsdad, dreams of ponds, Theo Gallus, BrianL, Dinsmoreoutdoors, mypeoples, Clay N' Pray, LeighAnn, Bob-O, Lyle Krehbiel, DRG), 192 Guests and 492 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#61773 - 12/16/05 08:44 AM Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Good morning, Silly question here that I don't know if anyone might know the answer to. I have about 4 inches or more of ice on my pond and some snow over top of it in areas and slush in others ( from yesterdays storm ) When I went out to clear off some of the snow, I noticed some areas that had small ( about 1 to 2 inch ) round openings in the ice. As I scraped over them the water from the pond came up through it.

I am starting to see some of the winter algae starting to form under the ice and as such was wondering if this is an exothermic reaction or maybe something to do with the growth of the algea and heat being thrown off. Any ideas would be welcome.
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61774 - 12/16/05 10:42 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Sunil Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11486
Loc: Somerset, PA
Eric, last year, I saw similar holes in my pond after the ice had set in.

There were a few holes like that.

Because the looked like ice fishing holes that had started to re-ice, I wondered if they were from poachers who may have been ice fishing my pond.

Hopefully, it's a natural thing.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


Top
#61775 - 12/16/05 11:47 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4173
Loc: Raymond, NE
Eric, is there any water circulation in your pond, or any springs. I've seen similar things on our pond where a small hole becomes larger with the weight of the ice pushing down on the water, there is usually a spring or some sort of water circulation under ice. This can sometimes happen when the ice freezes unevenly due to snow cover, the weight distribution of the ice becomes very uneven. Sunil, these were not old ice fishing holes at our pond, the spooky thing was that they never froze over even when the highs were in the mid teens, you could watch the water swirl and slowly poor over the ice as it got sucked up into some nearby snow and added more weight to the nearby area.
_________________________


Top
#61776 - 12/16/05 12:47 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
I see this on my ponds with early or late ice when the ice is thin. No springs in my ponds either although there is no doubt springs can do this. Not sure about the mechanisms of ice formation though. Maybe someone else can come on shed some light on this.

One thing I have always found curious on natural lakes is water surges under the ice. Has anyone else seen this? I have been icefishing and seen water go up and down in my icefishing hole. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with contracting ice that may cause some kind of pressure wave. We all know the cracking of the ice that I have experienced in really cold conditions can really make some noise.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#61777 - 12/16/05 02:39 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Thanks for the feedback and I am glad to see I am not alone. As far as I know there are no natural springs in my pond. I do have a seasonal creek that is still running even though its cold here. I also do have some snow ont he pond and it does seem that the holes stay open even in the low teens.

Ice and water is very interesting at the various temps. The more I learn about htis pond/eco system the more I realize I know nothing about it!! lol

One thing that also caught my eye today was that I have an apple on the center of the ice. My apple trees are about 200 feet away. I have deer, fox, bunny, squirrel, and Coyote markings all around the pond. With my Ice only being 4 inches and those holes in spots, I wonder which one of those ( deer or squirrel ) I will find frozen and floating come spring time. Who knows maybe neither but always funny to see an apple in the center of the pond with nothing around and no tracks leading away from it. Come to think of it it could have been the squirrel and he might have been taken by the Bald Eagle in the back. Ahhh well its fun to see the winter pond life unfold.
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61778 - 12/16/05 08:12 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12398
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I typically see the same type thing on my larger pond which is not spring fed. I currently have 4 inches of solid ice with 1.5 inches of thick slush-snow and 1 inch of regular snow on top. Yesterdays accumulation of heavy wet snow has caused water to move on top of the ice and make most of the snow water soaked. About in the center of the pond there is a round 10" to 14" open water hole. I assume this is where most of the water is moving out and on top of the ice. I have seen these clear, ice covered, round holes during previous years after they have frozen closed. Water movement through this present open hole has enlarged the hole size during the last 24 hrs. I am curious to see if all snow becomes water soaked before the open hole freezes solid during cold temps predicted for the next few days.
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

Top
#61779 - 12/16/05 09:28 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Theo Gallus Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12369
Loc: Central Ohio
I've got 4-5 holes in my acre of ice, but they are all irregular "spiderholes" with "legs" going out from a central hole, maybe leading off through cracks in the ice. The area of the different holes is, amazingly, pretty consistant. They have stayed thawed or almost completely thawed for the last week or so. They may have water oozing up through them, but they are not the only places that can happen. The aerator hole has been open most days and the drainbox hole has always been open.

Pretty intricate dynamics in ice.
_________________________

Non carborundum illegitimatus!
(totus res in temperantia)

I subscribe, but won't pay Photobucket.

Top
#61780 - 12/17/05 05:09 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
I am beginning to think we are on to an Alien conspiracy here. Something like the Crop circles!! \:D
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61781 - 12/17/05 11:40 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Debra King Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 556
Loc: South Ga.
Or just maybe there is a link here to Bruce's pirates! It is possible they are having a hard time breathing underwater. \:D
_________________________
Do fish actually kiss?



Top
#61782 - 12/17/05 02:00 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
I never thought of the Pirate connection. Maybe its airholes for them to breath through. :rolleyes:

I was out there earlier today and saw about 25 holes like this. If it is Pirates, then looks like I am dangerously close to being attacked soon!!! \:D
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61783 - 12/17/05 02:29 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Bruce Condello Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
Typical pirate response to global warming.
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

Top
#61784 - 12/17/05 04:09 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Hey maybe the holes are the spots where the peg leg went through the ice as he walked across the pond!!! Arrrrgggggggggg!!!
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61785 - 12/17/05 11:51 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Debra King Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 556
Loc: South Ga.
I don't know a heck of alot (just enough to be dangerous), but I will take a cocky credit on having solved your mystery. Good to know he/they were just passing through instead of treading water waiting on some booty. \:D

And no, before you even ask, I am not up late at night drinking and making posts. You all can just be such a darn fun crowd to be around.
_________________________
Do fish actually kiss?



Top
#61786 - 12/18/05 07:47 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Russ Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 1011
Loc: Ulster Park, NY
Up until our last rain/ice storm, my pond was peppered with those "spider holes", as Theo calls them. They remind me of the scene in the movie "Fantastic Voyage" where the group is passing through the brain.

Top
#61787 - 12/18/05 08:37 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Theo Gallus Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12369
Loc: Central Ohio
Yeah Russ - that's exactly what they look like - typical depictions of neurons.

A couple of 13 degree nights have frozen mine soild, but you can still see the shape.
_________________________

Non carborundum illegitimatus!
(totus res in temperantia)

I subscribe, but won't pay Photobucket.

Top
#61788 - 12/18/05 09:12 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
Okay so now the best hypothesis is that it is not Pirates but actually brain cells and neurons??

Cool I always thought it was intelligent to put a pond in. Now I have the proof for my wife who thought it was a stupid idea. \:\) Now I can tell her I am fostering a big large brain as opposed to a hole in the ground to put money into. ;\)

On a more serious note, the holes in mine have not frozen over as of yet, but I also see the spider type of marks from one to the other. I would truly love to see some scientific study or description of what is happening in the pond as we see such things.
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61789 - 12/18/05 10:32 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Debra King Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 556
Loc: South Ga.
Actually Eric an error or delay in a synaptic gap sequence could give one the delusion of “pirates on the ice”. So it may still all tie together.

Basically I am just sitting down here in lower Ga. jealous of the fact that the only ice I have is in my freezer. The pieces have some cracks, but no pirates holing up yet.

I believe the true answer to your phenomenon is called Ice Rosettes. They form on ice after a hole has been created and then slightly frozen back over. The new ice is not thick enough yet, so the water current underneath has just enough rise and fall pressure to crack the fragile ice causing those "spider web" effects. At least I think this is what you all are talking about.
_________________________
Do fish actually kiss?



Top
#61790 - 12/18/05 10:39 AM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Eric Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 538
Loc: Rochester NY
I would gladly trade the ice for warmer weather. I used to live down in Naples Florida many years ago and moved back to upstate NY to be closer to family. Man I can't stand the cold. But it sure makes for interesting pond discussions lol
_________________________
---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond Upstate NY 14 ft deep


Top
#61791 - 12/18/05 12:54 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19377
Loc: Miss.
Eric :

On a much less serious note here is the fictitious study you inquired about only as it relates to your recent spider hole discovery (alleged discovery of brain life in your pond).


TITLE

The Existence of Pond Spider Brain Cells and Their Ability To Confuse Pond Owners About Their Cause and Effect Relationship.


ABSTRACT

There has been much recent speculation as to the existence and proximate cause of small openings in pond ice with radiating irregular fractures which to some pond owners have been alternatively and allegedly caused by current day pirates of the Carrib.(as they manipulate global warming or otherwise extract their revenge) or by a newly discovered intelligent life form designated as Spiderus Braincellus Fictitious. This study was undertaken to test the very limited and questionable observations of selected pond owners related to the two hypostasis and establish a foundation, if it exists ,for this new exotic/alien life form or in the alternative establish the cause of the ice features including if current day pirates were involved.

After limited efforts, little calculation questionable scientific methods and influenced only by the PondBoss forum and based on one set of fictitious mDNA tests the conclusion is mixed, but certain ,with aspects of each hyp. being true.

Our conclusion is the spider holes were not a new life form but exhibited the very limited brain function of one very cold half frozen pirate (Black Jack Kidd variety -hereafter BJK) as he attempted to do yellow perch observations from his boogie board pirate skiff on lightly frozen ponds on a recent return trip in search of the super secret BG pond identified as being in the northeast USA by CB1. The mDNA gathered from the area of most of the spider holes were of pirate origin (Black Jack Kidd variety) and from the skin of the foot area . It seems that BJK was returning from an excursion in search of the secret pond containing larger than life male BG when he decided to do YP growth rate observations on a string of lightly frozen lakes on his return trip. The lakes run in a line from Maine to NY to Penn. to Neb. with each having been reported by pond observers - note location of PB observers Eric , CB1, Sunil, Theo and Shorty. It appears that prior similar observations at B Cody pond ( known to have an outstanding YP population) must have occurred on prior trips and that BJK avoided this location in fear that he would be discovered by a superior scientific investigator. The evidence suggests that as BJK tried to use his pirate skiff/ boogie board to do YP observations when his unprotected foot (pirates of the Carr. don't wear shoes) contacted the ice it stuck and parts of the skin remained at each spider hole where his foot contacted the ice as he franticly attempt to extract the research vessel and its occupant. Thus the irregular pattern/fractures and skin source for mDNA tests. The pond owners observations were accurate to a limited extent but it is theorized that due to the absence of long-haired posts for a short time on the PB forum they were slightly delusional as to their new life form/genetic observations (this is now designated a behavioral disorder "PB longhair-lackus "). We can not disprove the possibility that there was some limited brain function- new life form (YP avoiding observation , and frozen pirate extraction) occurring or that in time the excised pirate skin in first contact with abundant pond life would have mutated into a new and brilliant life form designated Dr. Frankenbruce. More input , facts and observation are needed from future studies to more accurately confirm these conclusions but it is feared that such events will be limited due to the limited foot skin remaining on BJK's pirate feet. It is therefore concluded that this is a once a year event limited to northern (Yankee) ponds which happens prior to total freeze over , ice fishing and SAD onset frozen tundra effect.

From the Unofficial PB librarian--links
[ Not translated into Germanic ]

-------------------------------------------------

\:\) Merry Christmas and I hope in the season of joy this brought a smile . It is as much a parody of the writer's status as the people and events. \:D \:\) ;\)
_________________________















Top
#61792 - 12/18/05 02:54 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Sunil Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11486
Loc: Somerset, PA
Nice work ewest!
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


Top
#61793 - 12/18/05 03:12 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Theo Gallus Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12369
Loc: Central Ohio
This explains the bloody Diet Mountain Dew can I found stuck to the ice on my dock, placed a full 7 feet away from the nearest bloody bare footprints on the pond ice. That's way farther than one of my multiple personalities could have placed it while icefishing/sleepwalking barefoot, but well within Dr. Frankenbruce's reach (as anyone who has seen Bruce's fish photos well knows). \:D :p
_________________________

Non carborundum illegitimatus!
(totus res in temperantia)

I subscribe, but won't pay Photobucket.

Top
#61794 - 12/18/05 03:13 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Brettski Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6874
Loc: Illinois
This is better news than I could have ever imagined! My pond project lies directly between Penn. and Neb.! Deb, I'm gonna need some paranormal detection equipment by next winter. Better yet, let's get the sensors and cameras mounted around Cecil's pond rite now....hope it's not too late in the season.
Us Yankees are truly blessed!
(excellent rave, Ewest)
_________________________


Top
#61795 - 12/18/05 04:31 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Debra King Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 556
Loc: South Ga.
Brilliant ewest, brilliant!

Hey Brettski, you are right! I could mix business and pleasure on this one. Equipment part is simple, understanding...that is the key. ;\) Have not caught a pirate on visual or evp yet, but there is always the chance!
_________________________
Do fish actually kiss?



Top
#61796 - 12/18/05 05:00 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
burgermeister Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
Dam, ewest that's good! I think I'll go have a beer and some Hooter's wings on that one.

I think you have all been hitting the egg nog a little early.
_________________________

Top
#61797 - 12/18/05 05:04 PM Re: Small holes in ice where water is not frozen
Bruce Condello Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
I'm trying to wipe the tears away from laughing so hard! \:D \:D \:D
_________________________
Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Today's Birthdays
4D Ranch, gunsmoke
Recent Posts
No bass recruitment in our lake??
by TGW1
1 second ago
HOT!
by anthropic
18 minutes 54 seconds ago
The growth of my bass at 1 year (Video)
by Dinsmoreoutdoors
44 minutes 38 seconds ago
fhm question in 4 yr old pond
by TGW1
Today at 05:21 PM
2009 Project of the Year Award!!!
by Lyle Krehbiel
Today at 05:19 PM
A Lighthearted Question for TJ
by teehjaeh57
Today at 04:27 PM
New to aeration, need help choosing system
by anthropic
Today at 03:31 PM
help making a trophy bass pond.
by anthropic
Today at 03:22 PM
Help Stocking my Pond in Central Virginia
by anthropic
Today at 02:51 PM
Raise Height Of Dam - Can I Use Existing Siphon?
by Todd1978
Today at 01:55 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
CNBG
My Best Longear so far
Help ID this fish
Crayfish monster.
Turkey Pics
Question on pond draining

© 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide