Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Georgia Giants

How about an update? What ever happened to the pictures of the GG that Deb was going to provide? I think I remember her saying she might be able to get pictures of GG in the 1 to 2 pound size when they seined out a pond or something. Did I miss them? Sure like to see pictures!

Hope I am right about this(if not sorry Deb) the pictures will be part of the Georgia Pond Boss meeting and then I am sure will be posted.
Good reasons to come, to see the pictures and the fact I am in charge of the food

That's putting the pressure on her, Bill!

Robinson, how long have you been saving that pic for just the right moment? Hilarious.

Deb has mentioned on this forum last week that the pond a Ken's Hatchery has not been drained. But she is ready with her camera and ruler for photos. She has not forgot; she is just waiting for employees to drain the pond with the larger GGiants.

I'm curious as to why there are still no photo's...Texas715 has impressive fish and access to a digital camera, Bruce has a camera and "Giant" Bgill (oops, is that a copyright?) Several others post "Perch pics" beside a ruler...draining a pond seems almost unfair, surely there will always be a freak of nature flopping around in the mud...right ? Bait a worm up, and let's see what bites ! As for your Georgia meeting, set a limit on the GG debate, 15 minutes max. We covered so many topics in the TX meeting, and we only started to scratch the surface...

Harsh...shut up juice...lol, why do you feel so defensive ? I'm simply questioning "why" a typical picture of a 1 1/2 lb. fish is so hard. It just strikes me as deceptive to drain a pond in an attempt to get a pic of a handful of large fish. Feel free to comment, I have my hybrid boots on

You don't have a picture of a huge GG and you chase ghosts in your spare time. Is there a conection here?

I would like to take a moment to apologize for a few posts I made on this thread last night. I was tired, in an ill mood, and took a defensive stance in my wording. I have deleted these posts because they misrepresented who I am and what I stand for.
As soon as the pond is lowered for the larger F-1 GG's I will post the pictures. I can't give an exact timeline for this because the pond also contains large HSB that a customer from North Carolina has purchased. When he returns from Nigeria we will lower the pond to deliver his fish, and I will be on site with ruler and scales. This is the only pond that I can give precise information on as to the age of the fish in comparison to the size. I don't have the ability to go cast a line right now; I am simply swamped at work (in the office).

As for the connection between the huge GG and the ghost hunting, the only connection is me. The paranormal research team I am part of (on a very part-time basis) is a wonderful team of people who are open minded and support each other on every aspect whether they agree or not. We all come from different backgrounds (some with different belief systems), but we treat one another with respect. With my schedule it is not often that I actually get to "chase ghosts" (as you so aptly put it), but it is nice to be part of a second family that doesn't second guess everything you say or do. Support groups are great, aren't they?

Deb

"We'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

Deb,

I received the water test results in the mail today and associated recommendations from your water testing lab.

The recommendations were to do nothing, zero...basically I have perfect water.

Total hardness and total alkalinity were identical and less than 5 % above optimum for HSB. I also do my own independent water testing...kind of test the tester and my results agree with your lab to within 10%....my test is a less accurate drop test.

I suppose if your company was selling water products, as has been suggested, you just missed a chance to try to sell some...but more importantly, if you give honest recommendations based on test results and what works for your company, then you did good. I have seen no reason at all to doubt your company's credibility and certainly not yours. Thanks.

Eastland,

Speaking of pictures, how about a couple of pictures showing us those 2 inch HSB that grew to over 12 inches this season without any regular artificial feeding...before and after?

I'm really interested in your techniques for doing that, because I can't and would like to....even with perfect HSB water, 45% protein artificial feeding and Tilapia, I'm unable to get a six fold HSB increase in length in one season.

Heck, I couldn't even get a 2 inch HSB to survive in my pond with LMB let alone increase 6 fold in size. As I understand your posts, you have 2 inch HSB in with not only LMB, but CC and crappie, all in the same pond. Those techniques would make a good Pond Boss article. Thanks.

Lest anyone think I was trying to be malicious by starting this thread let me assure everyone that I just wanted to know if the pictures had arrived. I hadn't seen any activity on this in weeks and just wondered what was going on. Wish I could attend this meeting in Georgia to learn more but that's just no in the cards for me. I'm a very part time pond manager.

ML, I'll take your playful thrashing as you continue to support Deb and undocumented hybrids...against just about everything this forum stands for...it's all in fun. I hopefully never said I had 2" HSB, that would be misrepresenting my fish

As for getting the HSB, Crappie & CC to cohabitate, it's easy to do when they are all initially stocked at 3-4 inches...pay ATTENTION ML ! I did mix in 24 adult LMB over 3.5 surface acres, but since my bgill forage base was in existence a year prior, and tilapia were introduced early Spring, I figure my predator losses have be minimal. We do have another older 2 ac. pond where LMB, bgill, and CC, have suppressed a single successful crappie spawn for over 15 years, maybe that's where you got confused. ML, I'm just messing with you, don't take offense...it my way retaliating for sifting thru all the posts you make on various topics

As for pics, I DO have a camera, and should be able to catch a sample HSB pic this weekend...with snow in the forecast and 25 degrees lows. Also, I do not have an abundance of undocumented material, my HSB were purchased as 3-6" fish in April, but 3-4" is what I recorded on 90+ % Even if my HSB pic is 8-9 inches, I'm still proud of the little guys ! I can always say the big ones are hook shy

Eastland,

Funny, but I always thought a person was innocent until proven guilty...or stated another way, I try real hard not to accuse people of things for which I have no firsthand knowledge, especially as it relates to a person's professional endeavors. If that is against everything this Forum stands for, I'd be surprised indeed.

It's a free, open Forum. I choose to give someone the benefit of the doubt until they do something which violates my trust. I would far prefer to find out for myself firsthand if the GG's do or do not grow as advertised, rather than assume something based on what others who do not have any firsthand knowledge may say.

If they don't grow, I'll be the first to say so...and if that turns out to be the case, you and others who so choose can gloat and say I told you so, but I will know that I acted in a manner consistent with how I would like to be treated, i.e. find out the facts first before convicting or making hurtful accusations.

I agree most of this is all in fun...except when a person's integrity, their career, their reputation, and business ethics are questioned. In that event, it is serious and deserves fair and honest treatment, in my opinion. At least, that is how I would like to be treated.

ML, don't confuse the issue with your morals. I'm not saying the GG's might not be the end-all be-all, the greatest perch ever. What I am saying is : first and foremost, the majority of pond manager's here grow predators...these pond managers do not have a use for such a fish. Second, just like the HSB has challenged the LMB in small ponds, it takes years of concrete evidence to prove or disprove growth rates, in this day and age, make the economic model fit. A proven model will sell itself, and it will take a lot of hard work, "IF" it's economically advantageous, the sky is the limit.

I barely have enough energy left to address your point on "careers" and "ethics", but I'm sure you remember that old Wendy's slogan "Where's the Beef ?" You don't hold your job day after day sitting on your butt do you ? I'm guessing you provide others with substantial documentation and research to justify your paycheck. Maybe you can create an economic model with GG's that doesn't have an outrageous stocking plan...but there's the catch-22...why are you creating that model ? Shouldn't it exist ? yes or no ???

I'm sure glad you cleared that one up (no one here has any use for a fish like that ). I'm one exception to your absolute rule. If the GG grows as advertised, it will serve a terrific function in a special pond for special kids (and kids at heart).

Economic model...where the heck did that come from? I'm just trying to raise some fun fish for my grandkids and their friends. Economic model...if I was into ponds because of an economic model, someone should have me committed . However, I will say that the cost/ benefit ratio is positive, i.e I get far more benefit from ponds than the cost measured in $. Economic model isn't part of my pond management lexicon. Fun fish, now that's what I'm talking about.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eastland:
"Second, just like the HSB has challenged the LMB in small ponds, it takes years of concrete evidence to prove or disprove growth rates, in this day and age, make the economic model fit. A proven model will sell itself, and it will take a lot of hard work, "IF" it's economically advantageous, the sky is the limit."

And that comment should be the end to this thread Eastland. We have been in business for over 40 years, with the GG selling itself for over 30 of those years. All the needed documentation was done in the beginning years, but back then Ken was not the best note taker. Can't blame him for that though... he obviously created a fish that served a purpose for a heck of alot of people. If it didn't then I would not have a job at this hatchery mainly due to the "economic model" you had suggested. We would be bankrupt. Not to mention the fact that if our fish (and program) did not have some advantages, we would not have repeat customers and an approximate 35%-40% in sales coming from customer referrals. Word of mouth sells alot more when an honest approach is taken from the beginning with positive results long term.
As far as money invested in the GG, I have not seen a real difference in the price of a GG versus a bluegill. So if it does not cost any more to stock, costs less per lb to grow out, has the potential for excessive growth, can provide offspring for "predator ponds", fights hard, tastes great (had to throw that in) ... Sorry, I just got so carried away with the positives that I forgot the initial argument.
I have only worked in the fish business for 2 years, and have only been part of this forum since this past September. I do "sit on my butt" at work a lot of the time, but not in the manner you meant. A majority of my time is spent in front of the computer researching NEW ideas and concepts. Actually September through May is 75% truck delivery scheduling and 25% research. Then the summer months are about 90% research with 10% of the time devoted to local deliveries. Give me time to work backwords for the results you requested, and remember that I jumped into this only a short while back.
Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.

Deb

Let's vote on if the bluegill, and it's cousins have a viable use except for forage for forum members:

I vote YES.

Deb, I'm not real sure you got what I was saying. You are a part of a research team to prove or disprove the paranormal and all of us want you to get us proof of this Georgia Ghostfish. You may need to get your team to help.

Nope Brian, read you loud and clear! Just was not in the correct mood to address the true meaning of your statement. I posted pics awhile back from our files. Then I was asked for current pics with documentation. That is what everyone is waiting for (drumroll...), and that is what I will post when time permits.
As far as the paranormal research team goes, did you know that sometimes it even takes 3 or more visits before a homeowner can find peace with what they are "experiencing"? As Robinson posted before, ghosts exist. It is just a fact. We don't use seances, Ouiji boards, or mediums when we investigate, and we always say a prayer of protection before starting out. Did you know that from a scientific point of view the human body as we know it is comprised three part? Part one is the flesh (which is buried or cremated when we die), part two is the soul (which goes up, down, or sometimes is temporarily left in limbo), and part three is the spirit. The soul and spirit are comprised of energy. Energy can not be created or destroyed, only changed. Go figure, 2/3rds of your body is comprised of energy that is released upon your death. Where does all this energy go??? Now there is a question to ponder. I guess a dead GG COULD be a ghostfish. The team hasn't run up with any ghost fish yet though, sorry. You seem like you would be a trip to be around. Put you and Robinson together (in a padded room mind you) and there would be fun for all.
Sorry for the long side-note about the paranormal. I will get you all pics (of the fish, not the ghosts) when weather, work, and pond levels are permitting.

Deb

Deb, has Ken's Hatchery ever done an all female GG growout pond? Or an all male GG growout pond? I know most of the hybrids are typically males but I am curious if the males and females have ever been sorted and grown out seperatley, if so I am curious what kind of results were there.

I have stayed out of this for awhile, Deb you are welcome. What is the big deal about a pic? Thye have pictures in the catalog. What does that prove? Heck I can grow a bluegill to enormous demensions with the right situation. Much more to the contorversy than whether a GG can reach 3 lbs or whatever. ML, even if your GG grow to 2 lbs you did not stock the number rec. most of the time by Ken's. That my friends is my problem a lack of goal oriented stocking and overall high numbers, along with water quality products that sceintifically make no economic sense.

I do feel this way but admit I do like the GG in certain situations and feel they are superior to typical hybrid bream. This is my case is a pond that is geared for amateur or novice fisherman. They need an agressive fish Also the pond needs to be easily drained after a few years once reproduciton of F2,F3 exist.

Robinson if I tell you I will have to kill you. Top secret is top secret.

Greg, watch your step or I will have to cut your commission.

Shorty:
No that has not been done from what I have been told. As a hatchery we deal with selling fingerlings more often than selling the adults. Also because the wealth of knowledge that is apparant on this forum was not available when Ken started tinkering with this fish. Now that these types of forums are available, Ken has moved onto different projects (even though he still won't turn on a computer). This point was brought out before by Cody, I think. It would be a good project to undertake.