Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Georgia Giants VS Crappie !!!!

Now guys from ALLLLLL we know about Crappie and from what Deb has taught us all on the Georgia Giant Bream...It stands to reason to ask the question.

Which fish would be the "least risky" to stock and manage? say you have a 5 acre pond or lake for the aurgument sake....

Oh boy...this outta get good.

big_pond,

Personally, I would never stock either one in a large pond with a diverse fish population.

I am seriously considering, however, the GG as a niche fish in my kid's pond. I think it may very well be ideal for that application...if it lives up to what Deb says and I have no reason at all to doubt her. In fact, to the contrary, she has given me many reasons to believe her.

If I understand her program, i.e. the GG is an end in itself, not a means to an end, and you follow a stocking plan that removes all the offspring as the program goes forward.

I stock Tilapia every year. I am trying rainbow trout this year and will probably stock them every year also. The GG sounds like a 3 year fish, so from that standpoint alone its better.

No, I would not stock either fish in a 5 acre diverse fishery. I can't think of a situation where I would ever stock crappie in a pond. The GG, however, for the purpose it is intended and sold, I certainly am considering for my Kid's pond.

Big Pond :

In your assumed 5 acre pond what are the goals for it and what predator fish or fishes would you want. With that info a better risk assessment can be made. Both crappie and GG , like all pond mgt. tools have a proper place ( here very limited) and risks and rewards. The difference in the 2 for risk mgt. purposes is crappie have a known risk factor while the risk factor for GG is much more of an unknown.

Like ML I don't plan to use either in a pond with a diverse fish mix and never with other non-bass sunfish (BG, RE etc.). Now if all you care about are big blues and flatheads then as long as you have enough forage of the right size I am not sure it makes a difference. ewest

Crappie, plain and simple. Fun to catch, taste great and fairly cheap to buy.If the concern is over population.. guess what- you get to fish more! I defy anyone who has ever ice fished to tell me this fish is not one of the most fun to catch.( This message brought to you by the crappie ice fishing board).. Now what was the question again?

Both are risky in a 5 acre pond. You have to consider if you are willing, or able, or how easy it will be to renovate the pond if things turn "sour" after the first 8-12 years. It would be a real challenge and a high maintenence task to keep it in proper balance.

I Stand with BC.

HIGH maintenance I think is the word.

RENOVATION now that is definately a bad word for the everyday blue collar man on a 5 acre pond.

I do have to say to the contrary that I have seen ponds that work well in ballance with crappie. As for fishing them. I love it. Crappie are great fish to catch and eat. As long as they can be kept in check.

GG, well that is to be seen. I would like to see what would happen on a standardized stocking where BG numbers are replaced with GGs at the same stock rate. (bass, GG, RES)

Some have asked what the goals are well lets say Either Bass, Coppernose, Redear, maybe Channel Catfish and Crappie. I am guesing it would be 'best' to stock Crappie a year after the bass and make them fairly "Adult" fish..

OR

Bass, Coppernose, Redear, maybe Channel Catfish and GG sunfish. I guess given what Deb has said about them if we believe it or not.. Also I guess you would need to adjust the stocking rates on the Coppernose by lets say Half....This would mean 400 Coppernose and 400 GG sunfish.

given these parameters give or take a littel what do yall think? This is to more or less answer ewest question....

big_pond,

Have you been reading Deb's posts? GG's are not recommended together with any other BG. Perhaps you are still thinking of them as part of a standard bass/BG system. They are not sold for that, as I have read Deb's posts. They are an end themselves.....meaning they are not stocked to help establish a standard bass pond; they are stocked to be raised, caught, and consumed themselves for their own value, not the value of any offspring which in fact need to be eliminated. They would be an extremely poor choice to stock as part of a forage base for LMB.

They haved a limited application and part of a large pond with diverse fish population is not a good application...at least in my limited understanding from reading what Deb has had to say. I'm sure she will correct me if I'm wrong.

No ML you are correct! F-1's are not meant as appetizers, but the offspring are. I personally like the GG's in combination with HSB and a bunch of minnows. The fight (rod and reel) is there with both. Crappie are a fish of choice, but I would most certainly not put them in anything under 2 acres. Even then I would not stock them heavy.

Deb

Personally, I wouldn't own a pond without crappie. I'm thankful I listen to my Pop with experience, his pond was built in 56 and there hasn't been a single year of stunted crappie. It's rare to see YOY survive. To each his own

How big is your pond eastland??

Eastland, I recently posted under another thread about how long the odds are for a BG to survive to breeding size. They spawn multiple times so you can get a good crop.

I have always been curious how crappie can spawn once a year and take over a pond. It seems like the YOY would get clobbered in a small pond instead of a big one.

Dave is I understand it, because crappie are born first, grow fast, and diet is mostly live things that the YOY will be eating Bream YOY by mid summer. The bream have a hard time keeping up reproduction

Bill is correct. If I remember right, crappie spawn when the water temp is 10 or 15 degrees colder than when LMB do. I think this early season spawning and the risk from bad weather/temp changes that early is the main reason crappie spawning is so iffy. But in the years when they have a good spawn, the crappie fingerlings have all the other species for forage, and mouths big enough to eat them.

Crappie fecundity up to 188,000 vs BG 80,000 per year.
Spawning temps as low as 56 degrees vs 72 and 75 degrees for RE and BG. In addition I have been told ( but have seen no published info) that crappie year class varies wildly based on existing population dynamics from good numbers of large fish to massive numbers of small fish in a cycle. It is the cyclical spawning, along with those noted above, that makes it next to impossible to manage crappie in small ponds. I have seen info that indicates that gizzard shad have the same ability to control offspring numbers based on population dynamics. These are the know risks I was talking about in my first post.

Big Pond based on the 5 acre pond and fish you listed I think the risk level for either crappie or GG is extreme. I would think that after a few years you would be facing a complete renovation. I can only think of a couple of examples for the use of Crappie or GG in a mixed pond and they involve using them as forage for large existing predators like blue or flathead cats or large LMB or HSB with the idea being that they will all be consumed and even these involve some risk. ewest

I have heard you can get away with crappie and bluegill in small ponds because the bluegill spawn multiple times a year crappie always have something to eat. I have a 1/2 acre pond with what seems like 90% bream(not really a problem to me)and I've considered putting crappie in the pond-if I can catch some somewhere. What are your opinions on this?

BTW-could someone post a picture of the Georgia Giant Bream?

Thanks

Big Pond, where is the 5 ac. pond located? If the pond is in Georgia, I could understand not going with the crappie, but from the southern border of Iowa and above the survival rates would be lower due to severe winter temp drops.I would ask the experts, put the pond in Georgia then comment.Now set the pond in Minnesota and comment.

The pond build in 56 is two acres, the one I'm bringing up a new generation of crappie in is 4.

Enough of the "Old School" thinking, The only downside of Black Crappie in a small pond is that they compete with other predators for forage. HSB are more than capable of controlling Crappie. Ponds stocked with bass/bgill several years prior to Crappie work too. Water needs good visibility.

With the addition of tilapia, a healthy forage base should keep up the predators RW's too.

I have said this before and know why promote crappie. However...we look at about 150 lakes a year. Years ago I saw more qulaity bass ponds ruined by crappie when not being fished and harvested. Now I see about 25 lakes a year with crappie, only about 3 this had a populaiton I would consider overcrowded with crappie. In all those cases draining and starting over was suggested.

The other 22 had few carppie but quite large and you guessed it bass heavy. I warned about when suggesting taking out bass to improve growth to agressively remove crappie as well. I have had about 10 lakes under contract for several years and they continue to have low abundance of crappie since pond owners keep them under control, with about half of these less than 8 acres.

My point is with high bass numbers I no longer feel crappie is as much of a threat as I once thought and with proper observation and harvest by the pond owner is quite feasible to maintain.

Greg,

What is the smallest pond size that you have seen a successful fishery with crappie? Thanks.

I'm wondering what that lower limit is....and maybe, as has been suggested, with adequate predators and fishing pressure, the limit is lower than we have thought in the past.

ML:

The pond I described is in Iowa, approximately .75 acres and has a wonderful crappie population. Never catch gazillions of 'em, but every one we do catch is very nice...

Matt,

Would you provide some more info on the pond...is it bass heavy? Do you intensively manage? Do you have to fish for crappie like every day to keep them in check? Just stuff like that about the pond....oh and talk about the BG and forage base also, please. Thanks.

p.s. black or white crappie or both?

ML, we have several around 2-5 acrs with good crappie. I can not think right now, but sure I have seen a few smaller than an acre. Mostly white crappie and every time bass heavy. Not tht difficult to control if bass heavy, my 2 cents.

Greg -- I need ND hunting stories!! Maybe send me an e-mail?? :-)