Hello, Thanks in advance for any help with this pond. A few years ago we bought a property to build a house on that has a just shy of 1/2 acre pond on it. The pond has been neglected for many years and is completely surrounded by timber. It has trees growing all the way to the water's edge all around it, including the dam. I had to cut a path to even get to the pond when we first bought the property. It is about 9-10 feet deep in the middle. It has tons of leaf litter on the bottom and as best as I can tell about 8"-10" of muck in the bottom. Run off is the water supply. It's full of tad poles, frogs and crawdads but I don't believe any fish. The pond is located where three properties meet, so it is shared by us and two of our neighbors. I've spoke to the neighbors and they tell me the pond used to have bass in it, but they haven't even been to the pond for years. I think the fish must have been killed off at some point.
After spending a couple of years building our house and moving in, I'm ready to give some attention to the pond and see if it can be brought back to a decent fishing pond. I cleared out most of the trees and brush on our section of the bank and dam. This week I spent an hour removing sticks, branches and fallen logs from the pond as far out as I could get with chest waders on. My goal would be to get the pond to where we could enjoy a little fishing, for ourselves and future grandkids. We go to a bigger lake for more serious fishing. This pond would just be for casting a line on evenings for pure relaxation.
Can the pond support fish in it's current condition? I have no idea what killed off the fish and if the water quality is good enough with all of the leaf litter. What can I do to improve the water quality if need be? As I mentioned it's a shared pond so I have some limited options. I don't believe either neighbor is interested in contributing to any major renovations. I am fine with doing all I can myself, with the understanding that not all of the pond is under my control. I guess at first I'm looking to do the minimum to get the pond to hold fish. Assuming that's even possible without a total rebuild. There are a few large cottonwoods growing on the dam, which I know isn't ideal.
I'd love any thoughts and pointers that might set me in the right direction. My initial thought was to just throw some fish in and see what happens, but then I found this forum and figured I'd get some better advice.
It sounds like you have already done a lot of excellent prep work on your pond.
Yes, you can definitely make a 1/2-acre pond that is 9-10 feet into a very good fishery.
1.) Generally, trees on the dam are a big no-no. However, those are some well-established trees. Clearing them now might actually cause some leaks as the roots rot out. (That might be a good separate question to post and get some expert advice just on that topic.)
2.) I don't see an obvious waterway entering the pond, or an obvious outlet. Are there just gentle slopes delivering water into the pond? If there is no outlet structure, is there any evidence of erosion damage where a flood caused the water level to overtop the dam? That would be a priority to "fix" prior to spending money on fish.
3.) How far away is an outlet for 120V electricity on your property? Aeration would help your fish during the summer, since the trees are going to reduce wind action to naturally aerate the water. Also, aeration would aid some aerobic bacteria in eating up some of your muck.
4.) What type of fish would you enjoy? A largemouth bass - bluegill pond would not be that expensive to create or maintain at your location. However, there are lots of Missouri members that have other fish ecosystems.
5.) If there is no obvious waterway to the pond, there is a chance that a drought took the pond to a very low level or dry and killed off the previous fish population. Has the pond stayed mostly full the last few years while you lived there? If so, then you should be fairly low risk moving forward with your development plans.
Good luck on your new pond project! There looks to be lots of excellent potential to my eye.
I agree with FishingRod in that you should be able to have a very nice fishing pond. I do find it odd that there are no fish in the pond at all, but you're on site, so you should know.
You are already aware that any improvements you make can be shared by all the neighbors, so whatever you do benefits all.
Have you tried any fishing with worms on bobbers? I ask because that should really tell you if you have any kind of fish in the pond. And knowing that would be very beneficial to any future stocking plans.
If you are knowledgeable enough to know what a fathead minnow is, then you could go to a bait store and buy 5-10 dozen fathead minnows and put them in to just see what happens. A low cost canary in a coal mine if you will.
Also, a water quality test may be money well spent prior to stocking of more fish (fatheads can go before).
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
It sounds like you have already done a lot of excellent prep work on your pond.
Yes, you can definitely make a 1/2-acre pond that is 9-10 feet into a very good fishery.
1.) Generally, trees on the dam are a big no-no. However, those are some well-established trees. Clearing them now might actually cause some leaks as the roots rot out. (That might be a good separate question to post and get some expert advice just on that topic.)
A few of the cottonwoods are dead/dying, so any issues with the roots may show themselves in the coming years.
2.) I don't see an obvious waterway entering the pond, or an obvious outlet. Are there just gentle slopes delivering water into the pond? If there is no outlet structure, is there any evidence of erosion damage where a flood caused the water level to overtop the dam? That would be a priority to "fix" prior to spending money on fish.
The pond sits in a bowl with runoff from the surrounding area feeding into it. I believe there is a spillway on the end of the dam that my neighbor owns. I don't know if there is rip rap or a pipe over there. Kind of an odd situation with him so I haven't been over there to check in person. When cleaning out all of the underbrush behind the dam I did discover a concrete pipe sticking vertically out of the ground at the base of the dam. It's about 6" diameter. There's standing water in it a couple of feet down, and probing with a stick it seems to be full of mud. I don't know if it has anything to do with the pond or not. I don't see any evidence of a stand pipe on the surface of the pond. At first I thought it may have been an old well, but I doubt it would have survived construction of the pond. So I'm guessing it's related to the pond in some way..
3.) How far away is an outlet for 120V electricity on your property? Aeration would help your fish during the summer, since the trees are going to reduce wind action to naturally aerate the water. Also, aeration would aid some aerobic bacteria in eating up some of your muck.
It's several hundred feet to the house. If absolutely necessary I could run power there in the future, but would kind of like to see how things work out with the pond and the neighbors before I go too crazy on expense and labor. Are there any chemicals or something that can help with the muck/leaves?
4.) What type of fish would you enjoy? A largemouth bass - bluegill pond would not be that expensive to create or maintain at your location. However, there are lots of Missouri members that have other fish ecosystems.
Bass and bluegill would be fine, maybe a few catfish as well just for a change of pace and fishing style for kids.
5.) If there is no obvious waterway to the pond, there is a chance that a drought took the pond to a very low level or dry and killed off the previous fish population. Has the pond stayed mostly full the last few years while you lived there? If so, then you should be fairly low risk moving forward with your development plans.
In the 4 years we've had the place I've not seen the pond level fluctuate more than a foot or two. That's not to say a drought may not have done the damage before we got here. I was guessing that maybe the pond had gotten too brackish from muck and leaf litter and that changed the water chemistry to where it wouldn't sustain fish? The frogs and crawdads are thriving though.
Good luck on your new pond project! There looks to be lots of excellent potential to my eye.
I agree with FishingRod in that you should be able to have a very nice fishing pond. I do find it odd that there are no fish in the pond at all, but you're on site, so you should know.
You are already aware that any improvements you make can be shared by all the neighbors, so whatever you do benefits all.
Have you tried any fishing with worms on bobbers? I ask because that should really tell you if you have any kind of fish in the pond. And knowing that would be very beneficial to any future stocking plans.
If you are knowledgeable enough to know what a fathead minnow is, then you could go to a bait store and buy 5-10 dozen fathead minnows and put them in to just see what happens. A low cost canary in a coal mine if you will.
Also, a water quality test may be money well spent prior to stocking of more fish (fatheads can go before).
Yeah, sharing the pond is a unique situation. Right now neither of the neighbors has any interest in the pond. That will likely change if it starts to produce fish again, so everything I do is with with that in mind. After I showed interest in the pond and started clearing my side one of the neighbors did a little as well. I have zero issue with others benefitting from my work on turning the pond around. I just know I won't be able to manage it for trophy fish or anything like that without having control of the entire pond.
When we first bought the property I was excited to throw a line in the pond. It hadn't been fished in many years and I was envisioning monster bass lurking amongst all of the down trees and logs in there. I fished it multiple times without a single bite. I went to the worms and bobber without any luck at all. I've yet to see any dead fish or minnows swimming in the shallows. As far as I can tell there's no fish in there.
Can you recommend a water test kit? Looking on Amazon I see a few but some of them seem geared more toward smaller decorative fish ponds. Maybe they're the same?
I may get started with the fathead minnows soon. Would like to get things started so I can hopefully begin enjoying fishing the pond in a couple of years.
Welcome to the forum. Any freshwater aquarium test kit will do. Alkalinity, pH, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite are the big ones. Dissolved O2 is even bigger, but I don't know of any inexpensive, quick and accurate test equipment for that. My O2 meter was between $1,500 and $2,000..............
The fish could have died from an O2 crash years ago too. Unlikely that ALL the fish would have died, but you never know. Typically some small fish will survive.
Cutting the trees back will help with the muck, less leaves going into the pond reduce the amounts of organics that go into the pond.
Throw some Fatheads in there, 100 or so Redear Sunfish, and 300-400 Bluegills. Then next Spring stock 30 3"-4" Largemouth Bass. You will probably have to go pick up the Largemouth somewhere, that is too small of an order to have delivered without a delivery fee.
Have you ever seen Watermeal or Duckweed on the pond in the late summer?
Forgot to mention that you may be able to throw some muck-reducing products in there. Aeration would help remove some organic sediment at a faster rate, but isn't always an option.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Welcome to the forum. Any freshwater aquarium test kit will do. Alkalinity, pH, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite are the big ones. Dissolved O2 is even bigger, but I don't know of any inexpensive, quick and accurate test equipment for that. My O2 meter was between $1,500 and $2,000..............
The fish could have died from an O2 crash years ago too. Unlikely that ALL the fish would have died, but you never know. Typically some small fish will survive.
Cutting the trees back will help with the muck, less leaves going into the pond reduce the amounts of organics that go into the pond.
Throw some Fatheads in there, 100 or so Redear Sunfish, and 300-400 Bluegills. Then next Spring stock 30 3"-4" Largemouth Bass. You will probably have to go pick up the Largemouth somewhere, that is too small of an order to have delivered without a delivery fee.
Have you ever seen Watermeal or Duckweed on the pond in the late summer?
I haven't seen anything like that so far. I'll order some test strips from Amazon to get a general Idea of where I'm at. Thanks
Forgot to mention that you may be able to throw some muck-reducing products in there. Aeration would help remove some organic sediment at a faster rate, but isn't always an option.
Would one of the 5lb Pond Boss Blocks be a good idea? I've seen them mentioned before
Just read esshup's post, and agree with his statement that it is unlikely that ALL of the fish would have died.
In my past reading of the forum, new pond managers tend to hate to kill any existing fish, yet all of the long-term pond managers and professionals that post seem to agree that it is much easier to start with a "blank slate" and have a much easier time managing the known fish population to reach your goals.
I think you should consider pumping the pond dry. You could then examine the dam and see if there is an outlet pipe and you could also eliminate any undesirable fish that would hurt your management plans. For example, if you throw in fathead minnows now before you stock BG in the fall, they would multiply like crazy and your BG would get fat and happy ... but only if there were no existing fish in the pond. However, if there were already hungry green sunfish in the pond, they would slaughter your minnows and perhaps eliminate them by the fall.
Further, if you drained the pond and had a hot and dry August, you might be able to use some heavy equipment and remove much of the muck.
More work at the start delays the time before you begin to enjoy your pond. However, it may be worth it for much improved long term results.
P.S. It may be hard to drain the pond totally dry, and a few fish always seem to survive in a small, muddy puddle. Therefore, you may need to treat the pond with rotenone to sterilize your pond. There are other chemical options. You should probably do the pond chemistry test as esshup describes above to check you water quality now before any changes are made to the chemistry of your pond.
P.P.S. I agree with you that aeration is expensive and it might be a "wait and see" expense. When your mass of fish is small, your pond should have excess oxygen. However, as the biomass of your total fish population approaches the carrying capacity of your pond, you are approaching the oxygen limit.
I am NOT an expert, so I am just throwing out ideas for you to consider and post more questions. Fortunately, you already have a management professional and a guy that manages multiple ponds in your thread. You may get even more expert advice from other members.
Forgot to mention that you may be able to throw some muck-reducing products in there. Aeration would help remove some organic sediment at a faster rate, but isn't always an option.
Would one of the 5lb Pond Boss Blocks be a good idea? I've seen them mentioned before
Frankly, I've never used any of the products like that, but I mentioned it as something for your consideration.
Others may be able to share their experiences with it.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
Just read esshup's post, and agree with his statement that it is unlikely that ALL of the fish would have died.
In my past reading of the forum, new pond managers tend to hate to kill any existing fish, yet all of the long-term pond managers and professionals that post seem to agree that it is much easier to start with a "blank slate" and have a much easier time managing the known fish population to reach your goals.
I think you should consider pumping the pond dry. You could then examine the dam and see if there is an outlet pipe and you could also eliminate any undesirable fish that would hurt your management plans. For example, if you throw in fathead minnows now before you stock BG in the fall, they would multiply like crazy and your BG would get fat and happy ... but only if there were no existing fish in the pond. However, if there were already hungry green sunfish in the pond, they would slaughter your minnows and perhaps eliminate them by the fall.
Further, if you drained the pond and had a hot and dry August, you might be able to use some heavy equipment and remove much of the muck.
More work at the start delays the time before you begin to enjoy your pond. However, it may be worth it for much improved long term results.
P.S. It may be hard to drain the pond totally dry, and a few fish always seem to survive in a small, muddy puddle. Therefore, you may need to treat the pond with rotenone to sterilize your pond. There are other chemical options. You should probably do the pond chemistry test as esshup describes above to check you water quality now before any changes are made to the chemistry of your pond.
P.P.S. I agree with you that aeration is expensive and it might be a "wait and see" expense. When your mass of fish is small, your pond should have excess oxygen. However, as the biomass of your total fish population approaches the carrying capacity of your pond, you are approaching the oxygen limit.
I am NOT an expert, so I am just throwing out ideas for you to consider and post more questions. Fortunately, you already have a management professional and a guy that manages multiple ponds in your thread. You may get even more expert advice from other members.
Thanks for all of the advice. If the pond was completely under my control I would likely do as you mentioned and pump it dry and start from scratch. In this situation I don't think it's going to be a viable option It's not ideal, but I'm having to proceed with a minimalist approach right now. I'll spend some more time with a worm and bobber to see if there is any surviving fish in there. Now that I have removed most of the logs and branches I should even be able to throw my cast net.
8"-10" of muck isn't much. Fish with a light line and small hook, live bait or small artificials. Water temp needs to be in the 60's or higher for the fish to be pretty active. Right after sunrise or right before sunset. If nothing shows up, then go ahead dbl check the water and throw some fish in there.
