Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Another weed and algae post

Hello all. I had a pretty good crop of Chara(i think), a little pond weed and some algae. I installed an aerator about 3 weeks ago and then manually raked about 1/2 my pond and got out a good percentage of the stuff from that half. But now I have a super bloom of alage(bright green)taking over and the weeds are coming back stronger than ever.
Very discouraged here!
I thought the aeration would help the problem but it seems to be no help or even making it worse. I didn't want to use chemicals but it's looking like I might not have a choice other than just letting the weeds go.
My fish seem very healthy and active though. When I raked the weeds I also got loads of minnows that were stuck in the weeds so I know they are spawning well.
The raking stirred up alot of stuff and clouded the water for a few days but it's back to being pretty clear again in the areas where the are no weeds and such.
If I do use chemicals does anyone think it would be worthwhile to add some "Aquatron" and "Waste and Sludge Reducer"?
Also I'm worried about the dead stuff sinking and taking alot of small fish with it.
All comments appreciated

HT,

One thing that we often overlook is that weeds are terrific structure...they provide the very best shelter for young and small fish, and grass shrimp. The problem comes, at least for me, in finding a balance between fishing and the need for the positives provided by the weeds.

I agree with you that aeration doesn't do much if anything to reduce weeds...at least the bushy pondweed or Niad or Chara that I have. However, if you do use chemicals, the aeration is invaluable to reduce risks of fish kill due to low DO and/or help remove decaying dead matter.

Do you fertilize? Fertilization is the reason I have trouble (understatement) keeping weeds in balance. Before fertilization, my grass carp and Tilapia controlled weeds and algae. Now after fertilization, the algae is still under control while Tilapia are present, but the weeds have exploded.

My own objective is not to totally eliminate the weeds, but find a good balance. I need Reward for now, until I can re-establish control with grass carp, to achieve that. I am absolutely certain that once I can get back in control again, a balance can be maintained without chemicals...but that also means no fertilizer, in my case. That's my thoughts, for what it worth. Maybe didn't answer your questions completely, but did my best

HT,

One possible reason your chara came back more after raking is possibly due to the fact that by raking it out you also broke up the algae beds and allowed pieces to drift to new areas and re-establish in the raked areas. I know this can be true with true rooted plants, i'm not positive if this is also the case with chara, but it's possible. The bloom is probably due to the lack of nutrient uptake which was once done by the chara that was raked out. The nutrients are still in the water and will be utilized one way or the other. If you do use chemicals it is easier to treat chara in it's earlier stages before it's calcified "exoskeleton" forms. For chara you'll use an algacide and at approximately double the rate of filamentous algae. It'd also be advantageous to use tubing to get the spray underwater in close proximity to the chara for better contact before diffusion into the water column. If someone has used copper or cutrine granuals on chara I'd be interested to here how it worked. Chara will spread underwater pretty fast like most agae does. It acts as a good filter in your pond and you may notice some clearing of the water due to the chara mats, however that increased the depth that the light can reach which inturn may promote more growth. Good luck.

Mike

green head,

Can you offer something to aid in distinguishing between Chara vs bushy pondweed vs Niad. I've looked at pictures many times online and looked at mine and honestly, I'm confused. Chara is supposed to have a smell to it, but is that always the case?

I am interested in how to distinguish chara from bushy pondweed. I have a weed that I think is chara but the odor is mild not pungent.

Frank

Frank,

Ditto...where is Kelly when we need him?

Thanks for the info all.
I'm not sure I have Chara or something else but it looks like the picture I saw on another post by Cecil I think.
I'm going to rake and skim again this weekend and then try a limited chemical use to see if I can keep it under some kind of control.
I agree Meadowlark that some weeds are good to have. I don't want them all gone but they seemed to be taking over. They are all around the perimeter out to 6ft. depth. The weeds don't bother me as much as the algae though.
I made a 10' rake out of sQuare tubing and attached hay rake tines to it on two sides and tied a 100' rope to each end, took it out to the edge of the weeds with a small boat, dropped it in and pulled it out and up the bank with my tractor. It makes a huge haul.
I made a skimmer with 4" pvc and some hardware cloth today. I'm going to give it a try on the floating stuff tommorrow.
Thanks for the info folks.
HT

Chara in general will be a bright green color and it will look like carpet on the bottom. It will have a very distinct smell. It's nickname is skunkweed. It also will become pretty stiff and feel gritty if you put it in your hand and roll it between your fingers. If you take a nut or weight and set it on the weed bed, chara will typically support the weight and you probably wont pull it in. If it is a niad it shouldn't support the weight(unless there is a lot) and it will most likely wrap around the weight and be pulled in.Also...if you pull chara out of the water it will retain its underwater form due to it's rigid(ness) meaning you will still see stems and off-shoots. Niads, underwater, will have branches and stems, but when pulled in will look like long wet hair with no apparent branches. Niad's are typically long and skinny strands that are brown to light green in color. Naid's are more likely to reach the surface than chara in more than 1-2 ft of water. Off the top of my head, I'm not familiar with bushy pondweed.

FYI: Najas guadalupensis and Potomegeton pusillus are often confused with one another. After reviewing the posted pic, I believe that plant on the right is P. pusillus. Even so, the differences between the two are difficult to distinguish.

Kelly,

I finally gave up on ID because of the confusing pictures on various web sites. I tried a slightly different approach...I figured if it was Chara, Cutrine plus would kill it, and Reward would not effect it. Likewise, if it was pondweed, Reward would kill it and Cutrine Not.

I tested a very small area and Cutrine did not phase it, Reward totally wiped it out. I'm thinking I have bushy pondweed, but regardless I have something, Reward, which will control it readily until I can get grass carp re-established this fall in cooler temps.

Is this logic sound? Does pondweed = Niad?

As an aside, in three other ponds which were never fertilized this plant does not exist. In the fertilized pond (fertilized one year ago), it has exploded with growth in the absence of grass carp.

Can anyone tell me where I might be able to get a couple grass carp. Thanks.

Thanks for that picture Kelly.
Definite Bushy Pondweed at my place, not Chara.
I don't know if that's good or bad. I sure do pull a whole bunch out when I rake and set alot of it afloat. Hoping if I get it down far enough the Grass carp can keep it under control.

Pondrookie,

Several fish suppliers, including Todd Overton, have them. The problem is that they do not respond well to handling in our summer time temps.

The problem is so severe that most fish suppliers here will not sell them or handle them in the summer months. I have spoken with several reputable dealers that have told me that those that sell them in the summer are really not doing the customer a service. The fellow in Tyler, Bob, who is widely respected for his knowledge told me that reputable dealers won't sell them in the summer.

If you go to the TP&W page on grass carp, they list the approved suppliers for Texas..but again I caution you to wait until cooler temps this fall...that's what I am doing.

p.s. Like HT, I also thank Kelly for the pictures. If I had those I would have known mine was bushy pondweed also.

Gary, you can't buy them without a TPWD permit. The permit application will have a list of sellers. I believe you can probably download the permit off the TPWD site. If not, go to a TPWD office (one is on 121 in Haltom City). I bought some in Lewisville.

ML

What method did you use for treating bushy pondweed (najas)?

Frank,

I prefer non-chemical control but got trapped this year without grass carp in one pond...they all escaped. Reward knocked the fire out of the pondweed for me.

Meadowlark
I still don't have a good understanding of the fertilizing thing. I know I have all kinds of nutrients washing into my pond from my 3 horses and all the geese and such around here. My pond is a real wildlife haven here. Also I live next door to a nursery and I get alot of runoff from them also. I'm hesitant to add anything else.
I used a little Cutrine last year on the algae but the effects are short lived.
I have 14 grass carp now. Hope they get fat!
Do you think they eat that bushy pondweed readily or leave it for last?

HT,

They really go after that stuff. I have 2 grass carp in a 3/4 acre pond that completely eradicated the pondweed. As I mentioned I'd actually prefer some weeds just under control weeds.

Like you I have "natural" nutrients from a cow operation. I was incorrectly advised herein that I should fertilize my pond in order to "shade out" the weeds with the plankton bloom. What a bad piece of advice! That is why every chance I get I try to caution about the use of fertilizer. Many on this forum do not agree with me...but like Fox News says...we report, you decide.