Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose What is the maximum allowable drive time?

I live near to Imlay City Fish Farm, but their fish availability is unpredictable. So, I am looking at other suppliers, but unfortunately, they are all about a 3-hour drive away.

How long of a drive can fish survive if packaged in oxygen bags and kept cool and out of the sun? I am interested in RBT, SMB, YP, RES. One company told me no more than 1.5 hours for 6"-8" trout. Clearly, smaller fish and fewer fish per bag would help. Are there any rules of thumb?

The fish farms have eliminated "Fish Days" or "Meet the Truck." So, either I pay for delivery (given the great distance, there are minimum order requirements as well), or I attempt to transport the fish myself.

Are there any good plans for DIY fish hauling tanks with bubblers?

In general, the bigger the fish, the more risk during transport.

I've done a 2.25 hour drive with 9-10" HSB in bags with pure oxygen, and boxed. Out of (20) fish, I had one D.O.A. At the one pond where I put in (10) of these HSB, they had (4) morts within a week; I don't know if that was due to transport.

If you do some kind of DIY transport rig, I think you need pure O2, and not just ambient air; probably not as simple as one might expect.

I think there were (5) HSB per bag/box if I recall correctly.

As Sunil referenced, oxygen is what you need. A large Igloo, a small O2 bottle with a regulator and flow meter, and a small Point Four diffuser will easily handle a long haul. Aquarium tank stones don't work as well. If you figure out the square footage of the cooler, the fisheries should be able to tell you how many fish can be carried. The numbers will differ depending on size and breeds.

Here's my small rig, and it's been a life saver several times. The black ring in the lid is a vent, and the whole rig can be easily carried.

Sometime larger fish can experience some damage during transport from bumping into the walls when the vehicle make turns at speed.

I saw that once with a LMB delivery, where some of the LMB actually had broken lower jaws at the front most area. Fish guy said it was due to transport.

If that was really true, then maybe you'd want some kind of internal netting to prevent impact with the walls.

However, if others like FIH, have not had this issue, then disregard my comment.

Don't disregard what you posted, you're right! A big cooler would probably only safely carry a few larger fish, and if I was going to carry multiple RBT, or spiny fish, then I would go with O2 filled bags too. Carrying fingerlings, shiners, etc. would be fine in a cooler. I'm picking up 10 lbs of FHM next week, and will use the cooler for that 3 hour trip.

Thanks for the info. How about one of these food-grade IBC tanks in a cage? I think @Bill Cody mentioned these in another post. About $100 used. One would have to be absolutely sure it was clean and safe for fish. Sloshing around still seems like a problem, though.

I've made 5 hours trips with a dozen LMB in the 9 to 12 inch size using a large cooler and a simple bubble aerator. The key is the outside temp...if you can find a window that's between 65 and 75 degrees you should be ok making long hauls. I frequently haul a pound of golden shiners in my Frabill 13 quart cooler 2 1/2 hours with the cooler in the cab of my truck during Summer...no deaths, but gets to smelling a little fishy with the aerator running...I'm pretty sure they would last overnight if needed.

3 1/2 hour trips with fish from Overtons Fish Farm packed with O2 in boxes always make it...but then again, I only transport in Spring & Fall when temps are desirable.

I took DD1 over a hundred large CNBG 4-5 years ago in a tote, and it was half empty after the 3 hour trip. Baffles would be a good idea to help stop the sloshing, and they would help stop sea sickness too. The more water sloshed out, the more rocking back and forth the trailer did.

A 275 gallon tote is 2,269 pounds for freshwater (8.35 lbs/gal). That is over the bed limit for many 1/2-ton pickups. I haul my irrigation water tote on a trailer.

However, if you don't fill it all of the way, it will slosh like crazy.

Most of my totes have a threaded connection in the lids, but you would probably have to drill a hole in the lid for they oxygen line and caulk it prior to the trip.

How would you get the fish OUT of the totes? The valve on the bottom is usually 2" which would work for minnows and fingerlings, but not for larger fish.



I still think a Star Trek transporter would be the best option, but none of the advertisers in the Pond Boss magazine are offering that option yet.

I'm no expert, but this has been my experience. In March I picked up 30 6-8" YP from a recommended fish farm (2hrs 15min away), and got an additional 7 larger YP and around 2 pounds of bluntnose minnows from a highly esteemed friend that lives probably an hour and 45 minutes away (he met me at the fish farm). Fish farm packaged all the fish in oxygen and gave me 4 hour time limit. My 30 YP were splint in 2 bags, the additional 7 in their own bag, and the BNM in their own bag. All fish survived the ride home and are happily swimming about my tiny pond. I then went back in May and picked up 20 around 6-7" Specklebelly Sunfish and 2 pounds of tilapia. The SBS were divided into 2 bags and the tilapia in their own bag. All fish survived that 2 hour and 15 minute ride home as well. When I got home on all occasions, I floated the bags in the pond, waited 15 minutes, filled 2 tubs of my pond water, then transferred from the bags to tub 1, then from tub 1 to tub 2, then released to the pond.

I could see trout potentially being a problem, but from my experience, I think the others should be fine as long as you head straight back.

Just an idea, but the drain is always an issue on tanks or totes. Fish are constantly being pulled into it, and even with a net in front of it, the drain still gets clogged up. I have a twin 60 fish haul tank, and I'm working on a vertical slide in elbowed drain riser that has hundreds of holes in it. That way the fish couldn't get out or block the drain, and the suction should be so spread out fish wouldn't feel it.

Getting a bait net would help since they have flat bottoms.

'Rod, you are harshing my buzz! Seriously, your points are valid. I was thinking to cut a larger hole in the top of the tote, if it didn't compromise the integrity of the unit. Then, I could install baffles and get the fish in and out more easily. Finally, fashion a lid to cover the new hole.

Based on the responses here, I may be OK with well-packed oxygen bags and a cool day. I will be trout shopping in the next few weeks.

One hatchery I go to charges a few $3 or $4 per box, but if you had the space in your vehicle, you could request less fish per box, but have more boxes.

I've hauled Fish in 75 gallon Horse Tanks repeatedly, 50-60 gallons per tank, 4 tanks on a utility trailer. I use 4 outdoor pond bubblers, rated for either (memory is slipping) 500 gallon or 500 CF ponds. 10 hours on the road, home after dark, hold till next morning, confirm water within 5*F of pond and dump. YP, WE, SMB, etc. 20-25 lbs per tank. Only occasional morts. I haul October till mid June in Oklahoma. Lid covers all 4 tanks, 3/4" plywood with 3 inches of foam attached to lid and tanks ride on 4" of foam , insulated from sun and road heat. Long haul with temps above 85*F, I would pass on. One other thing, I split air lines for redundancy . Aerator #1 serves Tanks A & B , Aerator #2 also serves Tanks A & B , Aerators 3 and 4 both serve tanks C & D . It's worked well so far,, 70 hours of road time so far. Best I can tell, never a bruised or beat up fish. 4 tanks allow me to segregate by size and/or species.

James

Nice! Are your tanks galvanized steel or poly?

Galvanized, very inexpensive at Farm & Ranch Store. Hauled with my F-350 several trips, using Honda 2000 suitcase generator for my 120VAC. But my wife's Expedition had 120 VAC available in cabin, OH! So much better than a generator. I plugged a power strip in with power on indicator LED Light, no more pulling over to check status on generator. Then ran 2 white 16ga extension cords out to trailer on passenger side, 2 Brown on driver side, each aerator had it's own 120 VAC power run. EZ Peazy to quickly troubleshoot. The thin 16gaq. extension cords went out rear hatch , weather stripping provides excellent scuff protection for cords.

Hope it makes sense, God bless You and Yours, James

The 70 hours so far, is with Fish in tanks, not counting hours getting to the fish for pick up. Before next run , NW Ks. I hope , I'll probably modify my lid to cover 2 tanks, instead of 4, 1/2 the weight to move, when moving lid. My build is a little much , but, my ponds
are "Pay to Fish " so I'm making a Tilapia run each year ( have to keep FA under control for paying customers), 50+ pounds, then replacing WE , SE . Then if recruitment is thin possibly YP replacement. It gets two trips, almost every year.

Well, since this is a big part of my business I won't say about some of the things that I learned over the years doing this. I paid $$$$$$$$$ in dead fish, etc. etc. and for me to give all the info away? I just won't do it. You have to pay for knowledge, and payment could be paying a professor in a class room or paying for knowledge learned by paying for mistakes. BUT here are some lessons learned/cliff notes.

Do NOT run tanks that aren't full. It's called a slack tank. VERY dangerous if you have to make an abrupt driving direction change. I know of a fish hauler that had slack tanks in their truck, took an off ramp and they rolled the flatbed truck...... It wasn't pretty, both the people in the cab had multiple broken bones, and the truck was totaled.

Water weighs a LOT. You have to have the tanks tied down with straps strong enough, and you have to have lids on the tanks to contain the water. Splashing water out of the tanks is not a good idea if a state trooper or other police department just happens to see it. If you do not have electric brakes on the trailer, stopping distances can be greatly increased. If you don't distribute the weight in the trailer correctly and it starts to sway, and you don't have electric brakes on the trailer to stop the sway you will be toast. I will NOT use a trailer that has surge brakes. Period. Electric brakes or nothing AND you have to adjust the braking level according to the weight of the trailer. You can overload a truck/trailer suspension. Blow a tire, you better be able to control the vehicle while you stop it and you better have a good spare tire AND all the tools needed to pick up the vehicle/trailer to get the tire changed. I've heard of jacks sinking into hot asphalt because of a heavy trailer and the tire couldn't be changed. Is the trailer rated for that weight and are the tires rated for that trailer weight? Are you running the tires at the correct air pressure?

Hauling a tank that has more than 200 gallons in it? You better have a tanker rider on your drivers license. Haul more than 1,000# of O2? You better have a Haz-Mat placard on the truck and a Haz-Mat rider on your license.

Running ambient air is OK for a short run with low loading density, but for a long run or a higher loading density? You have to run pure O2. Running pure O2 without an oxygen meter is a recipe for disaster. Also, just like aerating a pond, using an air stone that does not make fine bubbles will cause problems. Even a Point Four O2 diffuser can allow you to kill fish if it turns upside down. You can kill fish by burning their gills by having the O2 levels too high. It WILL kill the fish. Running O2 means having redundant back up systems OR enough parts on board to fix whatever fails and fix it quickly. Don't run a defoamer in the tank? You can kill fish that way too by not letting the water off gas.

Keep fish in the same water for too long and you will kill the fish. You have ammonia build up and CO2 build up. You might see trout piping at the surface, think the O2 level is too low and pour more O2 to them if you don't have an O2 meter. It could be a build up of CO2 and you will smoke their gills.

The warmer the water, the less O2 it will hold. Fish are best hauled at 63°F water temp. You want the O2 levels to be between 9 and 15 mg/l. You might be able to get away with higher levels for a short amount of time, and possibly down to 5 mg/l for a short amount of time BUT that stresses the fish and causes them to use more O2. .

Fish density. It all depends on the species of fish and water temp, but when running pure O2 1/2# of fish per gallon of water is safe. At that density, holding fish for more than 16 hours is very iffy if you don't do at least a 50% water change. (Fish swim in their own toilet) You CAN haul fish at a higher density, but that is like playing with a lit firecracker that you don't know how fast the fuse will burn. Catfish can be hauled at a MUCH higher density. but if the fish weren't purged for 3 days prior to hauling, the haul density has to be lowered.

Water temp/pH change. No more than 5°F per half hour temp change, and no more than 1.0 pH per hour change. I have killed Walleye fingerlings with a 1.3°F temp change.

When using O2, you HAVE TO HAVE a DOT approved safety cap on the tank when driving down the road. It's a recipe for a ticket if you don't have a safety cap on it. Even with the regulator on the tank, it's gotta have a safety cap on the tank..

Try to cool down the water with ice? You better have a chlorine or chloramine neutralizer on board to use. Ditto for using city water.

Some states you need a fish hauling license to transport fish. If you don't have a receipt and you have fish in greater number than the bag limit, OR fish smaller or larger than you can catch and keep, you can get spanked for that too. Take fish from one state to another without having the proper permits or health certs? Google what a Federal Lacey Act violation costs. Oh, and that is a felony too.......

10# of small fish need more O2 than 10# of large fish.

Galvanized tanks? Not this boy. Take a look at what the haul tanks are made of. Absolutely 0 are made from galvanized metal. Zinc is toxic to fish. Add salt to the water to stimulate the slime coat just causes zinc toxicity faster. Again, you may "get away" with it for a while, but sooner or later you will get burned.

Putting big fish in the tank with small fish is a recipe for killing the small fish. They get beat up by the big fish.

Hauling in hot weather or cold weather and not using insulated haul tanks? Good luck. I have hauled fish for 12 hours in 10°F ambient temperatures. Even with insulated haul tanks the water temp dropped 13°, and try to adjust an O2 flow control meter when it's covered with 1/2" of ice.......

Just because you are running pure O2 and have an O2 meter doesn't mean that the O2 levels 5 minutes after the fish are in the haul tank will be the same 20 minutes down the road.

Use O2? You will need a diffuser stone made for O2, a regulator and a flow control meter. Since you need redundancy, now go price at least one extra of everything.

That's why it costs $$ to haul fish. Equipment costs, Knowledge expenses and driving down the road expenses. $4.30/gallon of diesel? That's $0.43/mile @ 10 MPG JUST FOR FUEL. For a hobbyist for one trip, you might be able to get away cheaply. Buy $500 worth of fish, get home, see that they died on the trip, now they just cost 2x as much to replace IF you can find those same fish.

esshup provides EXCELLENT fish hauling information. Take the advice as gospel. Learn from his mistakes as you make your own mistakes and kill fish. It the long run it could be cheaper to pay someone for hauling when dealing with lots of expensive fish .

I've never had any luck hauling fish in a galvanized tank. Adding salt and electrolyte makes the inside walls of the tank the same as a corrosive battery. I'm with esshup here, if it was that easy we'd all be rich. I have just over 11k in my new 400 gallon rig and every piece installed is to maximize getting fish from point A to B as stress-free as possible. It's not just a matter of putting water in a tank.

Scott, you, Kenny, and I have commercial haul tanks, which are by far the best scenarios. Let's suppose that we don't, and we want to do a 2 hour transport with 10# of 2-3" BG. The hatchery doesn't provide boxes and bags. What type of rig would you guys build?

I upvote Bill's response.

esshup was kind enough to show me his long haul fish transportation set up.

Dr. Frankenstein did not have nearly as much equipment to try to sustain life!

I, agree totally with Essup, especially the O2, but please note, NO O2 on my trailer . Yes, it's possible that zinc may be an issue, but, 70+ hours of hauling , times 4 tanks is 280 hours of use. Not a single dead fish attributed to zinc. Maybe all 10-15 fish that I've lost in 280 hours of exposure were Zinc related , out of thousands of fish transported, doubt it, but if so, not bad odds. No salts, no electrolytes, just water. Best I can tell, I haven't built a battery. Transported SMB, WE, YP, FHM, GSH, GC, Moz. TP, with same excellent results. I've been reading posts for hours every day , I mark "all threads" , and read every entry , on page 32 of "Renovating Ponds" currently , and I've seen a consistent line of thought " how to use what I have or build my own " and " thinking outside the box " and in the end, use what you can glean, but also apply your experience, yes ? With my experience, what I've read on the "Aquaculture" Web sites the last 48 hours ( I've taken your zinc concern, very seriously ) , the livestock drinking from these tanks their entire lives , and my fish only exposed to the "risk" at most 26 hours total , I'm thinking it works. Now, if I was hauling fish for someone else, I may have a completely different outlook, it's someone elses property , I would pay to replace , I would want salts and electrolytes , etc. *** So a Disclaimer *** I'm not a professional Fish hauler, and I will not haul your fish for you, my set up has worked well for me , may not for you, according to some who know much more than I, , you could lose your entire load of fish .. Use what I have done , if you wish , but remember the pros don't recommend it. ***
Now, a side note, out of 5 fish farms I've used, none have raised a caution about my arrangement. Second, the last farm did throw in salt before I knew what he was doing , 50 lbs. of TP and 6 GC made it home without a single death.***Please don't use O2 unless properly trained*** I promise, if and when this arrangement bites me , you know where (below the belt), I will without delay, Post a thread letting everyone who reads this incredible forum, know of my disaster. I will not allow my Pride to cause any delay. Final note to this long post, I have utmost respect for Essup, Dr Perca, Snipe, all the moderators , I look to all of you as my Elder Brothers in the pursuit of all things Ponds and Fish. If I've crossed any lines, my sincerest apology , God bless each of you, and your loved ones.

Fishing Adventure,

I have "helped" Snipe do a pond-to-pond transfer and short haul to a pond 30 minutes away. (Mostly I went to help because I got to meet three great Pond Boss members. )

They way he handled the fish was just one step short of the way the nurses handle premature babies in the NICU ward!

No touching fish with our bare hands, minimize the time the fish are touching the nets or the seine, etc. It was like a tutorial on "best practices".

The most enlightening thing to me was watching the fish calm down when placed in the tanks with the salt solution.

It may not always be feasible to copy the professional best practices in all circumstances. However, I certainly like to learn how the pros do things - whether it is fish handling and transportation or felling a blown down tree with my chainsaw when it is hung up in the crown of an adjacent tree.

When I can't copy the pros exactly (frequently due to cost and/or time constraints) then I like to get as close as I can.

Since you are doing fine with your already purchased galvanized tanks, that is probably the best practice for all of your cost versus fish mortality trade offs. However, the next time you have to purchase an additional tank, perhaps try a different tank material that would allow you to use salt in your transport water when justified?

(Literally everyone in this thread is more expert than I am! I am just rooting for your fishing ponds to be a huge success because I think teaching kids to enjoy fishing is a noble calling that could be a positive factor in the lives of hundreds of kids.)

10# of 2"-3" Bluegill could be transported for 6+ hours in a 150 quart igloo cooler, with the micropore diffuser set-up like George used for the HSB (with flow control valve with pressure set @ 45-50 psi), and the appropriate salt/chemical cocktail (ask the hatchery what they use to treat the water to haul fish). You will need to have an O2 meter to check O2 levels 15 min after the fish go in the cooler, again another 15 min, then again in 1/2 hr and if the O2 doesn't need a big adjustment, then you can go an hour. Make sure the water temp is in the low to mid 60's too.......

https://www.grainger.com/product/61...aq7-e2lNzxoCp60QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You need to drill a hole in the lid to allow the O2 hose to get inside. The lid needs to be locked down. Don't transport in your car trunk, water WILL splash out. Besides, this thing will weigh around 350 pounds with fish and water.

Fishinrod, that was just the tanks that I had in the truck. Now multiply that by 3x for what's on the trailer........ I can haul close to 1,200 gallons of water, 1,300 if I push it.

https://pentairaes.com/point-four-micro-bubble-diffusers-mbd

https://dwyer-inst.com/series-rm-ra...XCfWYAEWkPzVSXLAEOQf6ERbrwxoCxWgQAvD_BwE

https://www.grainger.com/product/79...eMPYqIPxfhoCh14QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://weldfabulous.com/welding-supplies/gas-cylinders/cap-accessories/

Then you have to get the 1/4" hose, and all the brass fittings/hose clamps to make it work. Then basically double those supplies because you need to have at least one extra of everything to ensure that you aren't stuck somewhere when something goes wrong. It's only $$$ after all.

OK, thanks. That's basically the same 150 quart rig I posted earlier, so it looks like we're thinking alike. The only difference is that I use a Premier 4700 regulator/flowmeter. It's cheaper than buying both($175), and it's already set up for micro bubblers, so just twist the knob and you're good to go. TPWD and BassCat boats did tests for low lift boat livewells, and the 4700 running on a M15 O2 tank, like I carry in the Igloo, should last 30 to 35 hours at 0.1 SLPM.

As far as chemicals, I use salt and clove oil. Like you said, always have duplicates of fittings and clamps.

Oh, I forgot. I always carry a pink bucket to move fish that I net out of the cooler. Nobody ever steals a pink bucket.

"Oh, I forgot. I always carry a pink bucket to move fish that I net out of the cooler. Nobody ever steals a pink bucket."

There is this dude who steals ladie's luggage at airports......and then wears their clothes.

Unfortunately I need to adjust my flow rate down to .1 SCFH at times or the O2 levels are too high. What has your O2 levels been say 1.5 hours after loading the fish at 0.1 SLPM, and what water temp are you hauling at?

Scott, I wish I had something to tell you, but I don't. Evening water temp was 84.5, so probably upper 70's in the morning. We can comfortably move fish for a couple of months, and put them in ponds that are within a mile of here. I don't have any O2 numbers because I don't have a monitor. If my big pond went south, I'd have no way to correct it anyway.

That Point Four micro bubble diffuser I use in the ice chest is small, but it can be daisy chained if needed.

I could just see him at Todd's fish shed.

I thought you had a meter. If you are moving fish in those water temps you are probably safe. Cooler water temps and you might have too much O2 in the water, that's why I have to run 50% the O2 volume that you do if I have a light load in a tank.

Not that it is ideal, but you used to be able to mail order fish half way across the country next day and second day air. Very few places still do this due to regulations, but many fish have been stocked that way over the years. Anyway have to believe with a little care and planning you should be substantially better than bouncing around in a ups truck for 2 days.

This video shows fish stocking using "same day air".

They claim that the fish have a 95% survival rate!

You Tube Video - Aerial Fish Drops

....with a stolen pink bucket to boot...

If he has a pink bucket, I hope it’s stolen.

Pink is the new black

Back in June I had 100 3" perch shipped UPS overnight from Zetts, 50 in a bag, each boxed with a couple cooling bags. They were in transit about a day and the outside temp was low 80's, but higher in the UPS trucks. Only 2 out of 100 seemed DOA. It certainly can be done with small fish, large fish are another matter.

Esshup had mentioned Point Four bars accidentally flipping over, which they do. Here's what I do, and I learned it from digging around Todd's haul tanks. My Ninja skills were better back then. Each bar has 2 holes on the ends, so I just riveted 1' piece of 3/4" pvc to each end.

Nice solution!

I especially like that you marked it "MINE", so nobody would steal it.

I can't for the life of me remember why I did that. I did that years ago.

If you marked it years ago, AND you still have it, then clearly your strategy worked!

Like this?

I have a 10:58 AM text that says different.

Well, it's Red faded to pink. LOL

I get it now....

Nice clean diffusers. I bet they have that new leather smell.

Question for the experts: Do the fish enjoy their transportation more if you place one of those automobile pine tree air fresheners in their water tank?

I use a piece of 1/8"-3/16" Lexan that I zip tie the diffuser to.

I had 14 LMB 12" to 14" in 7 bag 90min drive and I did released them really good and they were in perfect condition, But I had 12 of them death in first 48 hours. The reason was the lake temperature was high. about 3 months later when weather get cool, I did get 2 of them for the test and both survived. So in my experience putting them in bag with pure oxygen is fine, But the lake water temperature is very important, You dont want them have thermal shock.

Yep ATA, they need to be acclimated to the different temp between the tank and the pond. If not, they go into shock and either die or are picked off by predators