Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations My male bluegills are preoccupied?

Although I originally thought bluegills in my male only bluegill pond were concentrating on eating tadpoles, hence why they were off feed, I now think they are in a spawning mode.

The pond is very steepsided but there is some shallowness on the very edge and they are crowded on the shallow edges fanning and apparently waiting for females. Too bad they will wait in vain! LOL

I have ruled out water chemistry problems as I'm aerating just fine and have had no mortalities. No disease problems either as they scoot off quickly when you approach which is not indictative of a diseased fish. Also no physical signs of disease.

What has me partially puzzled is the late spawning behavior. However I'm thinking since they came out of an RAS where the photoperiod and water temps weren't right for spawning, once in the pond with an increased photoperiod and temps they have gone nuts like a teenager that just reached puberty. We've had a heat wave for at least a weak and that has really peaked water temps. Very few have any interest in pellets right now although if I throw them a tadpole they will snap it up. (Proably due to territorial behavior as I have never seen a bluegill that doesn't attack something thrown in their nest)

I'm not seeing classic beds or colonies of beds but they are spawning on burlap and soil that has no sand or gravel.

Anyone concur this could be it? I still have some bluegills in the bass pond spawning.

Cecil,

Is this a newly filled pond? Are there other reproducing fish populations, i.e. fatheads or anything like that? My bluegill in my all male bluegill pond are mostly disinterested in pellets, but I'm speculating that the huge abundance of natural food and no YOY competitors of other species are making natural forage highly available. Given a choice, I think almost all bluegill prefer natural forage when it's easy to find.

CB1 :

I think you are right . Our BG are entering their third spawn of the year and have stopped feeding to a large extent. I don't know how many spawns you have up north but it is generaly the right time of the lunar cycle. I don't think that being in a male only pond stops there biological clock. I say this because I kept male only BG in a large acq. for several years and at the right time for spawning they would quit eating and start fanning out their beds- one in each corner of the tank. My 3-5 in. BG behind the blocking net are currently exibiting the same behavior as in the tank.

Bruce. Are your male BG in the male only pond making nests . I would think they are and that is why they are not eating pellets. I saw where you have RE in one of you male BG ponds. Do you think they will cross in the absence of female BG or are the RE male only also?

By the way how are your{ CB1 and Bruce's} male only BG ponds doing? How about their growth rate -- are they on course for 2 in. of growth before winter? Thanks . ewest

Cecil -- I'm interested in your observation that the bluegills aren't spawning in colonies. There's a pretty recent research paper indicating that something like 4% of male bluegills are solitary nesters, while the rest are involved in the spawning colonies.

I've got students looking for bluegill colonies in one SD natural lake and one NE Sandhill lake. In the SD lake, they found them easily. About 10 colonies, just observing from a boat, and not really trying to find more. In the NE lake, we couldn't find a single colony, even with snorkelers doing the searching. This is in a lake with a good bluegill population.

What's the deal?? Cecil? Bruce??

:-)

The bluegill in the all male ponds are making beds, but even last fall when they weren't, they just weren't too entusiastic about pellets. The smaller pond with all male BG has quite a bit less natural forage and the bluegill will readily come away from the nests to smash a pellet, then return quickly.

The pond with 4 RES are almost for sure all male RES that I selected when the fish were spawning. I wouldn't be shocked if I picked a female but I think I'm OK. The pond called "Firestone II" has redears of both sex and age-1 bluegill of both sexes. I'm not anticipating reproduction because the pond is lined and has extremely steep sides, hence the name "Firestone". If I do get hybridization I will be unable to tell if the age-0's are purebred RES or RES X BG hybrids so they will all have to be disposed of or I'll have to build another pond--yikes! When in doubt throw 'em out! Maybe another PB forum member will give them a home. If they're hybrids that are progeny of super grower BG and RES then watch out! It could be another Jor-Jah giant!

Dave,

When I had my big catastrophic die off in 2002 we breached the dam and entirely drained my pond so we could use the opportunity to re-excavate. This was in late June. When the pond was drain we were able to observe, count and photograph all of the nests that had been fanned out in the clay. There was one colony in the expected area, a flats area in about 4 feet of water. There was also a surprise, which was a colony almost as large in almost eight feet of water in a area that was only 200 square feet. We would have never known this one was there. Maybe the bluegill are hanging deeper than in the conventional spots. It seems a certainty, doesn't it, that they are there somewhere?

Yes, Bruce, I just have to believe they are somewhere. However, this lake is on the Valentine Refuge (Duck Lake), and it's mostly shallow! There is some deep water, however, and that may be where they are. I think we found some 9 ft deep water there when we did a physical survey 7 or 8 years ago. With the rain this year, the lakes are recovering some of their water depth.

The SD lake is FAR deeper (lots of 14-20 ft water, in fact). However, it has walleyes as well as largemouth bass. The NE lake only has the largemouth bass.

I'm working real hard here to not drop below 50% correct this year! :-) We'll keep looking!

ewest,

The growth rates are CRAZY in the all male ponds. I have some BG that are documentable age-2's that are getting real close to 9 inches. Also the progeny pond fish which are 49 weeks old some are 6-inchers. That's an amazing growth rate for this far north.

Just curious Bruce, what does a 9 inch BG from NE weigh? I have seen some reasonably big differences in weight versus length in my limited experience. Could weight be a better measure of growth rate than length?

Bruce :

That is an amazing growth rate even down south. Most BG are 3-5 in. at 52 weeks with a 4 in average. Even the hatchery raised 1 yr. olds are in that range. How do they compare to your ponds with male and female BG? Should I ask what you are putting in the water or food. Just kidding. To what do you attribute the results - food , genetics , good mgt. or all of the above? Should be interesting to see the paper/book/report that you, CB1, Bill {and ? others} are working on. Thanks for the info . ewest

Hopefully the results are primarily from the extremely good genetics of the parents. All parents were large, robust pellet eaters that were 9 plus inches long.

Fish are also in an environment with minimal competition compared to ponds with normal reproductive dynamics. Feeding also helps too. It will be interesting to see what happens in a few more generations. I'm getting mature fish in about one year so I can produce new generations quickly, but I have to watch to see if I'm selecting for early maturation, which could be a disadvantage if I do.

BTW, I don't have any normal male/female ponds, but some of my neighbors do and are feeding, with slower growth than what I've got.

Yes, it is a newly filled pond although I have a pretty strong amount of aquashade in it which made reduce natural production of feed. On second thought due to lower clarity maybe it's easier to see the zooplankton etc. in shallow water? No other fish species.

Thank you for all your comments.

Ewest, I bet Bruce's BGs go to the Cornhusker weight training facility overseen by Barry Bond's pill pu..eer, dietician!