Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Sunfish Id ?

I have a small existing pond on my
property that has never been stocked.
However, it contains many large sunfish
which I can't identify. I caught 15 or
so yesterday on a small fly and all were
quite large. the mouth appears to large for
a bluegill, but maybe to small for a
green sunfish. And, the body appears a
bit round for a Greenie. Maybe, some type
cross between the two. Can anyone identify
the fish ?

Lepomis cyanellus

Purebred green sunfish...and a nice one at that.

Bruce,

Definitely has green sunfish in it. But are you sure Bruce this fish does not have some bluegill characteristics?

Definitely a male by the dark coloration!

The way I've been able to differentiate is the thickness of the orange border on the fins. The GS border appears thicker than the hybrids which seems to be more of a thin band. It would help to see a better lit side view to look at the markings. I'm still thinking big, male GS.

The comment about "unstocked" seemed to favor an existence of pure GS living in the watershed as opposed to natural hybridization.

Bruce,

That's a good point but natural hybridization is quite common among sunfish. Fish producers are very careful to drain and lime to make sure there are no other sunfish before a pond is filled up and broodstock are added.

Of course this is just my opinion but I think there is SOME bluegill in that fish. The mouth doesn't appear as large as a true green sunfish and the body shape reminds me more of a bluegill. Could be wrong though. It's happened before!

Around here pure GS are indiginous to almost any stangnant waterway or watershed. Most times when ponds are first filled the ponds will immediately become infested with GS which will have moderate numbers and excellent body condition for a couple of years until the lack of predators allows stunting. After bluegill are introduced you get about five years where hybrids are reasonably common, but wouldn't ever consititute a majority of individuals. Then if bass are introduced the GS are gradually eradicated and become quite rare. It would be interesting to know is this pond has another stocked pond above it. You're right of course about hybrids being common, but I'm getting an indication here that the fish caught all looked alike.

I'm still betting pure GS but my goal for 2005 is to get where I'm wrong less than 50% of the time.

Bruce,

I'm probably wrong more often than right on fish ID, but that pictured fish is not proportioned like the GS I have seen commonly in Texas...it is wider proportionally which makes me question if it is pure GS or more likely has some BG in the genes.

ML,

Just a non-scientific observation, but when I see purebred GS (oops), their body morphology more close mimic BG the better condition they are in. I'm sticking to my guns until the DNA tests come in!!!!

P.S. Don't try to get in a contest with me to see who's wrong the most! I'm tough competition. :p

Sure is a short, fat green sunfish with a small mouth.Or maybe a short, fat goggleye, warmouth, or rock bass.

Doesn't look like the body is cylindrical enough to be a GS. I'd bet on a cross. Actually, the body shape looks more BG than GS.

This does not quite look like the BG-GSF hybrids I have: 1) as Bruce noted, the lower fins have too much yellow (pectral (?) fins almost all yellow). My HBG have just a fringe of yellow at the bottom edge of the lower fins. 2) The head lacks the blue-green striations that I think make HBG look prettier than either parent. 3) I think the body is a little too short top to bottom for a HBG. So I would pick GSF over F1 HBG if those were the only two choices. But, it could be an intergrade closer to GSF than BG.

Warmouth are GS as far as we are concerned in Kentucky. It looks exactly like the GS that are in my pond.

If this fish keys to part bluegill, but less than 50%, that would indicate F2 or F3 backcross. I'm not certain of this, but my understanding is that F2's have poor growth characteristics. The fish in the picture looks pretty darn good. I'd bet $5 that this fish is a big male GS that's got lots of eat.

Bruce,
That fish sure has a bluegill mouth, and body shape! But if you say it's a green sunfish- it's a green sunfish. Otherwise I might find myself agreeing with Cecil.

Brad B.

GREEN SUNFISH

Outside of the fact that the fish in the photo is in good body condition, I don't see where this fish is bluegill shaped. Bluegill are "taller". Look carefully at the inferior border of the anal fin. See how much yellow/orange there is?

Could it be an opposite gender cross, as in henny instead of mule? Dont mind me.

The GS/BG hybrids I've seen have a very thin brightly colored border on the fins, but I will admit there is a lot of variability...

And now for a moment of complete honesty.......

I DON'T KNOW!!

...and to you, Burgermeister,

This might be known as a baitfish crossed with a baitfish!

You could thumb that fish with ease. Thats no bluegill mouth.

You guys can generate a lot of discussion from a relatively poor and distant photo of that fish. The pectoral fin is obscuring the opercule flap and the photo does not have a good "shot" of the head features which are important in a fairly accurate identification. I'm not sticking my neck out until I see a better photo.

I have a local pond owner that has some big pure GS in his pond. I verified that fact last year. He said some are 10" long. He caught several last weekend that were 9 1/4" and ate those. Next time he gets a 9.5" or larger he will call me so I can get a photo and body measurements.

No come on guys! The green sunfish pic above that Bruce posted has a diferent body shape and a much larger mouth!

Bill,

A 10 inch GS would be a heck of a fish. With their aggressive tendencies, I would love to have them in my ponds if they got that large. Do you think he does something special? or do I do things wrong, cause I've never seen even close to a 10 inch GS. Seriously, that would be a fine fish in my opinion and would be a welcome addition.

So, it seems the infamous green sunfish is gaining back a little respect? What I want to know, since it is a "panfish", how was it?

As for you Bruce, you have way too good of a memory. I wouldn't put that one on my trotline even for a blue cat.