Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Build it and they will come

If you think your pond is hidden from the motivated poacher check this out...

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/default.aspx

Wow, Pretty impressive. One good thing is that neither of my ponds had been built when the latest map was done in 1995.

It wasn't my property. I guess it's not flawless.

Hey Meadowlark - I hear you have some pretty nice fish on your place...you mind giving us the corodinates?

: )

Darnold,

I know you mean well but Meadow Lark's not laughing about it. He's put in a lot of time and money and people are stealing him blind. Personally if it was me I be putting some birdshot in some asses.

I'm laughing with you. I have same issues - my place is 2 hours away. Im sure the locals know more about it than I do...whats a guy to do?

Most ponds built since 2002 are available on a "keyhole" program we use. If interested go to my "Getting Started" section on web page and fill in some minor info. These maps are a great tool to size systems with but with all such services & tools some will abuse.Ted

Darnold,

Try lat 32n log 44w. I hear its pretty good fishing there.

My pond is terrible; all fished out

Will Do.

: )

On the serious side - I saw mention of cameras in another post. One word of caution when putting "game cameras" up to take pictures of poachers - I hear they steal cameras too. Make sure to hide 'em really good and use some type of locking device. I suppose a thief is a thief.

My dad has a 20-acre patch of woods close by. I kept telling my Dad how his so-called "neighbors" (who we know and talk to all the time) were probably trespassing. We put up a deer camera just for fun. Who do you guess showed up on the first roll? You got it...the guy next door carrying a Shotgun! My Dad's "friendly" neighbors were hunting the place while he wasn’t there.

Lesson learned. Look close for the cause of the problem. The locals have likely been hunting (or fishing) the place for years before my Dad bought the land...somehow they must feel like they are entitled to do so.

You are right on...they have a feeling of entitlement and feel no guilt...makes it especially difficult.

Any ideas about hiding the cameras?

Unfortunately my largest pond is somewhat out in the open and I've found it hard to hide a camera....but you know just having a camera there that they can see acts as a deterrent, I believe. I have had one camera destroyed however...but on the good side my evidence of poaching has decreased considerably since they found I was watching. I can't say its been controled, but I think its going the right direction.

The best arrangement I have found to stop unwanted use of a pond is to find one or two responsible locals you like and give them permission. Set conditions like how often and "catch and release", then let them know they should "police" the property as if it were their own. They should understand that their priveledges will be revoked if they do not get the trespassing undercontrol or violate any of the conditions you set. This has worked great for me. All those piles of discarded line, six empty beer cans and a syrofoam worm container have disappeared! Also of note, if you have any retriever trainers in your area, they will be happy to provide this service and they don't even want to fish. Just a place to train their labs.

Meadowlark - you have a good point and come to think of it – after our neighbor was photographed, we have seen a lot less activity on my Dad’s place. Perhaps NOT hiding the camera produces better results.

Here is a good web site for hunting topics, lots of focus on game cameras. I have seen cameras use varoius strapping devices, hardend cases..etc on this website. Click on "Forums".

http://www.jesseshunting.com/

Google has launched a new map and satellite service. It is much more up to date I can see my 4 year old pond and even a gravel road put in next to my property 5 months ago. Where terra-server doesn't. Check it out.

Bob

http://maps.google.com/

Meadowlark.Thanks for your prior help with my posts. I hope this idea may help with your poaching problem . About 30 feet from the bank in water about 4-5 feet deep drive a wood post into the lake bottom so that it is about 5 feet above the water. On the post mount a small hanging feeder on top of the feeder [ or inside the feeder if it will fit and function] place your camera. Be sute to strongly secure the feeder and camera to the post. The water should deep enough that wading to the post is not possible. This all assumes that boats are not avaliable to the poachers. We have had good results from having the local game warden put out the word that he was looking into the matter and was going to stop the poaching. Good luck , and keep us posted. ewest.

ewest,

Thank you, I had the same idea last night, really.

I can buy an 8 foot steel post and mount a camera (or even fake camera) on it in some strategic locations. I'm going to try that this weekend. I think it will really help, thanks.

I think the idea of having a talk with the Game Warden is a good idea. Give him a key. Poachers will get used to seeing him come and go.

On the idea of driving a post into the pond bottom in deeper water, I tried this when I was looking for a way to mount my bug light fish feeder.

I had no luck driving in metal sign posts while standing in my Pond Master boat. We couldn't keep the boat steady at all.

Am I missing something?

Not to mention, after the first few inches of muck on the pond bottom, it was hard as hell.

Uh oh...seemed like a good idea at the time...those steel posts drive pretty easily...on solid ground. I'll try it anyway and report on Monday, assuming I don't drown.

Sunil I have driven many posts into our pond bottoms using a post driver { similar to a fence post driver} and/or a sledgehammer { 10 lbs.}. I sharpen the end first . Our ponds have bottoms of clay, rock and dirt. If one place is to hard just move over a few feet. It can be tricky from a small boat but not that difficult. In shallow water {4-5 feet}you can easily use a 10 foot A-frame ladder to stand on. We use the posts as part of our brush pile/structure program. We drive the posts where wanted then tie x-mas trees and other trees and brush to them using small trot line string. They soon sink and we then cut the small rope and they sink.
After a while you build up a good pile and the post tells you where it is .There are a bunch of ways to place the trees so you get the size , shape and location of pile that you want . You can leave the rope on at a length so that the tree is in the depth zone you want. Example- in 12 feet of water use a 6 foot x-mas tree with a 4 foot rope-this places the tree in the 4 to 10 foot water zone. I think you can see the many ways this plan can be adapted using multiple posts and trees at different depths . The options are limited only by your imagination. I hope this helps . I intended to post this before under the structure heading . Thanks ewest

The fish feeder / camera suggestion is a good one! I'll have to remember that. The Google map wasn't very detailed for my location yet. I have seen some of the GIS systems' detail and what they can do. Pretty dang spooky. They can zoom in on your property, measure the size of your pond, map out the best routes to get there, nearest dwellings, etc. I think many of the NCRS offices may have some versions of these and many counties are getting them.

Yep Rangersedge,

Only a matter of time until "Big Brother" gets more intrusive.

What scares me is if we have another Great Depression. Did you know the government took over a lot of homes and properties in the last depression due to taxes that couldn't be paid? And most homes back then were paid for.

I think I'd die in a gun battle before they took my property.

Guys,

If you mount a hidden camera, please point it at a "No Tresspassing" sign placed by the pond. Put the sign in the best fishing spot. Try to make it so the person will be standing in front of it when he or she turns around. It may make for a funniest video entry when someone tears down the sign or returns time and time again.

ewest, your comment about a 10' A Frame ladder put in the water set off an explosion in my mind. The light that went off in my head was almost too bright. Thanks for that.

Cecil, at least you can rest assured that if anyone tries to take over your property by force, you can arm some of your jumbo perch as fellow combatants in the fight for your land.

Meadowlark, I think I may have the same problem with poachers that you do. Like you, I live 70 miles away from my land. I can normally only get there on weekends and it isn't hard to time me.

I have been puzzled with the lack of bass activity. I envied Norm Kopecky when he posted about catching bass during an early warm period quite a distance North of me. I have seen only 2 bass this year, a small 8 or 9 incher and one that hit a spinner bait several weeks ago. I am just not seeing any bass activity. They aren't clobbering the bluegills when I feed and I'm not seeing any feeding at daybreak like I always have. Catfish numbers seem to be down when I feed. It seems like 4 years after initial stocking that I should be bass heavy. I'm not. I am loaded with bluegills of all sizes.

I've been thinking that it was early in the year, only a one acre pond and maybe they have gotten hook shy. Admittedly, I have been hammering bluegills since George hooked me on fly fishing and maybe I have spooked them. However, last Thursday I had to go there and decided to spend the night and do some fishing. I dipped a worm around all of the likely brush piles and walked the perimeter with an ultralight. Same thing the next morning. Nothing and no feeding activity. This weekend, I was up and just watching at dawn. Nothing! Then, I found a couple of dead turtles with holes in their shells. I don't believe I have non fishing turtle shooters.

OK, maybe I'm a lousy fisherman but I spent quite a few years on the bass tournament trail and think I know a little something about what I'm doing. Or at least I used to know what I was doing in lakes. Maybe not. I tried small bluegills as live bait and did no good.

I'm going to take my game camera and try to find a place to put it. I'm not interested in warning people away. Heck, I want proof and retribution. I certainly envy the guys who live on their land.

Dave,

Yes, you have all the signs. I am very sorry to hear that. It is a very disturbing problem...and it does not help when people say "well, you just don't know how to fish for them".

My cameras and traps seem to be working...along with putting the word out at the local feed store that I'm after the ba*stards.

Maybe the worst part is how long it takes to recover, assuming you can get it stopped. Very discouraging.

Dave,

It is a shame isnt it? Do you have controled access? Is it fenced and gated? If so then look close by for the problem.

I just recently purchased my property in East Texas. While talking to the next door neighbor he decribed in great detail my place and the fish (exact species and size) in each lake. It's obvious to me that the local population is most likely the problem when it come to these type of things.

Dave D. I can imagine the rage you must have felt about finding the dead turtles w/ holes in their shells. I feel for you.

The shitty thing about that specific incident is that the guilty party was just killing for fun.

As I'm an absentee land owner myself, I have had the most success in busting people at my place from Mondays through Thursdays, from early afternoon to dusk. This is not as much fun though as you can't be doing your regular pond activities, but instead have to be hidden somewhere.

Another first step (as Meadowlark has said) is to make the bastards aware that you are aware of their activities. This alone does stop some individuals.

While these items have most likely been mentioned before, here's a list of things I would do:

1)Spread the word to certain local folk that you are having trespassing problems.

2) Gather up the turtle shells and keep them in a place where they can be seen.

3) Start expending hundreds of rounds of ammo from a handgun or rifle every time you go to your property for the next month or so. Leave some empty shell casings around.

4) Hang targets w/ bullet holes at various locations around your property. I use old coffee cans hung from trees.

5) Leave a note for these bitches. I like to let them know that when I do catch them, I will be pursuing the most severe action/penalty within my rights and under the law.

6) If possible, donate some amount of money to the local police and let them know what you're going through.

7) If you haven't already, make efforts to find some local person who for a few bucks can act as a caretaker type. Obviously it's hard to know who you can trust at this stage. This is also very helpful in narrowing down the windows of time when the trespassing is happening.

Again, I'm sure you know all of this.

I'm going to do all of these types of things plus call the Game Warden. I've always liked to handle my own problems and, admittedly, the veneer of civilization is a little bit thinner on me than on some other people. However, in this case, I'm going to have to go for outside help. I just can't go there except on weekends.

Venting here and I think everyone here feels the same way. People let their dogs run and it scares the deer. They have gotten scarce in my area due to people moving in. People seem to think my investment and work for fish and other resources are theirs for the taking. Heck, I recently found a large, baited Havahart trap on my property. I modified it with the help of a big rock and hung it in a tree. I heard, second hand, that one of the neighbors considerd me a real @$$hole for wrecking his sons trap.

Sunil . I to don't live at my pond site .

I have talked to the Sherrif and the Game Warden .
Don't know how often they check on my place .

But have placed a large sign by the best fishing spot on my pond . It reads .

Your are
TRESPASSING and your are a THIEF !

Would you steal Cow's , Horses , or someone's Goat's .

THE'SE ARE MY FISH !
I treat the water !
I buy the fish !
I feed the fish !
THESE ARE MY FISH

If i catch you
I WILL PROSECUTE !

Have'nt seen any evedince of poaching since placing the sign ? Also looking into cameras .

Harvey

!

Harvey, I'm glad to hear that the signs may be working for you. Sometimes people need to be told that their activities are being seen.

Meadowlark, you mentioned that your cameras and traps seemed to be working. What did you mean by "traps?"

Also one other thing I've noticed: This is my seventh year owning my pond. The trespassing has seemed to go in cycles. Part of me believes that some of it is associated with kids, which unfortunately can be a regenerating problem. Once kids turn 16 years old, they can drive to more exciting things (or where the girls are) so they don't screw with your pond, but then you have the next group of kids who are now 12 to 15 years old.

Now certainly there are adults who are trespassing too. For Dave with those dead turtles, you have to wonder if that's a kid or an adult. If it's a kid, you really have to wonder about the parents who are letting the kid just shoot things with a rifle or pistol. The adults are always the ones who think they have some hick right to your property.

During my first year owning my pond, some chump actually came up to me and said "we hunted and fished here all of our lives, and now you own the place for six months, and we're not allowed on the property!"

I simply told him he should have bought the place if he loved it so much.

One final thought. Besides my recent issues with someone stealing the concrete slabs off my dam, I've always been able to find the perps by offering some other skell a few bucks for information. $20 bucks goes a long way to sell out a fellow perp.

Sunil, I have no idea who the perps might not be. Almost everyone is a possible and the general feeling is that, even after owning the place for 20 years, I'm still considered a Dallas Cowboy. There is a lot of resentment about rich outsiders (who, me?) who come in and buy up the land. I talked to one guy yesterday who retired there from the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex who recommended that I call the Sheriffs Dept. He says they would like to get access to land where the owner doesn't live there but has running water. My house, tractors, 4 wheelers, etc. are pretty secluded and a lot of people don't even know it is there. Evidently the local drug cookers like to come in and spend the day cooking dope and then disappear. I noticed a couple of months ago that my water hose had been left on by someone and my 2,500 gallon water tank was drained. We always turn the water off at the valve leading to the house when we leave. Possible mystery solved. I don't know whether to trust my stuff to some unknown deputy(s) but I don't know what else to do. I'd rather have possibly known cops than unknown druggies or poachers. At least the cops wouldn't blow my head off if I catch them.

Dave,

Is there one local neighbor that you could allow access and have them policing the others? I know a lot of people who keep tabs on their place this way...it seems to me that would be better to have one person rather than (possibly) the entire sheriffs department.

Man Dave! That's a whole new can of worms.

So are you saying that some trespassers/drug cookers are wanting to find sources of running water? And are you thinking that you had some of these drug cookers on your property (who used the water)?

There was an article in Time Magazine maybe a year ago that detailed the amount of Crystal Meph labs that were popping up in state parks all around the USA. They also talked about pot fields in the CA state park system. For hikers and innocent park users, the most dangerous times to be around were close to harvest time. Some innocent people had been killed. A major enforcement problem was that CA only had like 8 park rangers to patrol a few hundred thousand square miles of park.

A Crystal Meph cooker is also a prime user of his own product thus making him highly unstable.

I wonder if we, as land owners, have any other legal rights if we come accross some of these drug cookers on our property.

Dan, I really don't see anyone that I could trust. Heck, maybe I'm just being paranoid but everybody comes to mind as a possible problem. The retiree that I mentioned lives far enough away that he wouldn't really be available.

Sunil, We are loaded with druggies in rural Texas. The more I think about it, the more I believe that my place is perfect for a drug cooking operation. Very secluded with power and water. The Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex is close enough to have a ready market. The Sheriffs Dept. actually cruises the back roads around my place looking for them and they arrested some of them about 1/4 mile away. That was about 6 months ago. Guess I had better go armed when I go there. Now, thats ridiculous but is reality.

Dave,

It may be time to move to the country. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. Its really the only reliable way to protect your property. I've tried to have the best of both worlds (city and rural) but the city gets less and less interesting.

The only problem with the move to the country is my wifes job. She works in downtown Dallas. That means 1.5 hrs before getting to the traffic jams. I'm self employed and can work from home or anywhere. The problem is that I'm not retired yet and would have a hard time motivating myself with all of the toys I have there.

I just talked to the Montague County Sheriff. I'm meeting them up there next week to give them a key and an authorization to enter the property. I talked to the only guy with a key and I agree that he would have no interest in fishing or turtle shooting. BTW, the Sheriff told me who the local druggies are. That narrowed my suspicions down on that matter but if its teenagers or neighbors or (?). At least seeing them around should give people an idea that its unsafe territory. I'm also going to put up more signs so prosecution is easier.

Dave, that sounds good that you're going to meet with the local sheriff. I hope he sounded willing to help, or at least interested. I would also ask him how you may be able to make a donation to his Fraternal Order.

My local police have very much wanted to help, and more importantly, they have wanted my help in coming to any trials and testifying. For one of the guys who ripped off some of my small 100cc dirt bikes, he had prior bad acts and was on probation. His act of "Receiving Stolen Property" landed him his third strike and a multi-year stay in the PA State Pen (different than Penn State, mind you).

The officers explained to me that they spend so much time on dealing with the crimes that this guys does, and that the only thing that may have an impact on him is some jail time. I guess we'll see when he gets out in about two years.

I tried to tactfully ask one of the officers how "rough" it was in the State Pen. He caught the drift of my question, and just said "yes, oh yes. It's bad in there."

Dave,
I'm glad you're getting law enforcement involved.
Who knows, you may find a good friend there! I'm not the trusting type either but you're in a spot where you have to trust someone.

One thing to consider. Some of the chemicals they use in making the meths are lethal. Be very careful what you brush off of a picnic table or any other surface with your bare hand!

Ya'll gave me a great idea talking about posts in the water , for camera mounting .

I have a point sticking out in my pond accessable
by boat only .

Lots of trees to hide a camera , I keep the boat chained up and trespassers would have to have some big bolt cutters to cut the chain. But they would never see the camera anyway !

Harvey

Harvey,

Consider mounting your camera on the post in a bird house. Easy to build and its really cool if I do say so myself....and so far a bird hasn't taken liberties with it.

ML

While reading your post a "picture came to mind"..How many close up pictures have you got of birds flapping their wings trying to get into that birdhouse? Thanks for todays chuckle.

Dan

Dan,

I guess my carpentry skills leave something to be desired...the birds have totally ignored it...maybe they just don't want their picture taken...but no poachers either, yet.

Harvey, I tried chaining a boat to a tree. They cut down the tree. Better pick a big one.

Dave .

It's a good size tree , But it would really P##E ME OFF IF THEY CUT IT DOWN , If so hope it falls on them !

Meadolark .

Great idea on the camera in a bird house , I now have a bucket full of ideas .

Harvey

I think this thread keeps running on because many of us share 1) revulsion of being violated by trespassers and 2) morbid fascination with revenge.

Theo, I once heard, (don't know who the author is), that revenge is a dish best served cold.