Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Stocking F-1 bass

I've a stocking question,but first a bit of back ground. My pond is 13 acres and 50% flooded hardwood/pines located in east Texas. Spring fed and is 80% full. I treated it with 2 tons of lime per acre. The PH is about 6.8 . Last fall I stocked 1000 native blue gill per acre and 250 copper nose per acre, 75 lbs.of fat heads, 1000 threadfin per acre,100 channel cat 4-6 inches per acre with the intent to stock F-1 bass this spring. I feel the threadfins didn't do well due to poor delivery. This spring I intend to bring another order of fat heads , a double order of thread fins , 50 red ear(control snails) per acre, and 200 blue cat 6-8 inches. I plan to stock the F-1 bass the end of May at a 100 per acre 1-2 inches long. Should I be concern the the cat fish will polish off some of theses F-1 guys and move up in size ? Any feed back on my stocking plan would be appreciated.

Lakel,

The experts will give you feedback on your stocking plan. I have a question... Are there any wild bass, blue cats, or crappie in the lake now? Stocking a pond with a population of these preditors is just putting out expensive bass food. If possible, you may want to fence off a small area for a "nursery" to get some size on the babies before releasing them.

The pond is brand new.

I think you are a little low on redears. The normal(?) recommendation is about 250 per acre.

Your bass stocking is all right but on the high end. If you want big bass stock less. If you want a bunch of them stock the 100. If you want bigger bass stock 50 and after 2 years, eat everything under 13 inches. You might even consider stocking some larger bass than the 1-2". They will make it better than the babies.

You bet catfish will eat baby bass. They have no manners whatsoever. However, with the smorgasbord you are giving them, I wouldn't think you would lose enough to be a problem.

BTW, you mentioned your PH but not your alkilinity measurement. It is more important than PH. How does the sechi disk read?

I was hoping to stock on the heavy side for the F1 bass because of their size(1-2 inches) and their survival rate(herons,water turkeys,catfish) may end up closer to 50-75/acre from the original 100/acre. larger F1 seem difficult/expensive to come by here. Presently have a good bloom in pond visibilty about 16 inches. Any ideas about scaring off water turkeys besides shooting them? I'm only out there on weekends. I've already stocked 1250/acre with native bluegills 1000 /copper nose 250 so that's why I was going light on the red ears. Should I go ahead and push tham up to 250/acre ?

LakeL,

I'll weigh in on the water turkey question...as someone speaking with way too much experience with them.

First, where are you located? That's critical because of two things:

1) these are migratory birds and they leave the southern Gulf coast areas in March headed north...in fact, they have completely left my area now, thank God.

2) If you live in the great state of Texas, you can legally exercise your right to protect your property, i.e. fish, by securing a cormorant permit which enables you to kill these birds...and that is the only effective way to rid your self of the problem. Best $12 you will ever spend.

They eat 1 1/2 pounds of fish per day per bird....including LMB. Don't believe the folks that say they eat only fathead minnows...totally not true.

Once they find your place with the scout birds, then they will come in droves...I've had 30 landing at the same time. In a matter of hours, they can severely damage your forage base, a matter of days, eliminate it. Many well meaning folks do not agree with control measures, but I assure you the only thing that works is force....fake owls, scarecrows, cars parked on the dam, noises, fake gators, etc. I've tried them all and they all fail, don't waste your time on them....and whatever you do, do not leave your water unattended for long periods of time during the water turkey season.

That's the voice of experience...and by the way, some on the Board say I am obsesssed with water turkeys and I plead guilty, cause I love my ponds and the fishing and hate what those birds do to them.

I tried the crappie minnow size F-1's and am convinced that I got very little survival. Since none of this stuff is affordable anyway, I would go with the larger ones next time. I don't know the breakdown on price but if I only got 25 to 30% survival, I'm already paying more for the stockers. I also had wall to wall fatheads and bluegill to take the pressure off the new bass but think babies are just more delicate.

As far as the water turkeys go, I think you are just screwed like the rest of us. Talk to Meadowlark. It's one of his favorite subjects.

I like larger stockers for another reason. I stocked 2 sizes of channel cats, 3-4 and 10-12 inchers. Four years later some of my fish are in the 7 pound range and some in the 3 to 4 pound range. I think the original stocking size is the difference. Maybe not.

I think I would go with more redears. You don't get much recruitment out of them since they only spawn once per year compared to bluegills 4 or 5 times.

Damn, I'm good at spending your money.

Thanks for the great advice to this first timer. My pond is new and located Woodville,Tyler county, TX and I'm in the works of applying for the water turkey permit.................2 weeks ago there was one water turkey now last week I saw 4. I live in Houston so no way I can be out there except on weekends. Before the pond filled I left 2/3 of it with standing timber and numerous timber piles to give the fish a place to hide from those birds. Does anyone know if these birds will leave the area soon or stay year round? I might delay my stocking if there's a chance they are on their way north.Being a native of the area I agree these birds eat lots of fish. Do you think the underwater brush helps? Good advice on the FI size any idea where I might get large fish? What size would you recommend? 3-4 inches? I now plan to go with 250 red ear/acre now.

You have a good news, bad news situation...good news is the timber for fish cover, bad news is the timber is also the absolute favorite place for water turkeys to pick their teeth and catch some rays after eating your fish and rest up for the next day's feeding on your fish.

As I said in my previous post, yes they migrate north in the spring and return in the fall. The 4 birds you have now will probably leave and not return this year until fall if you give them a little encouragement to move.

However, like the bad penny they will return next October with all their friends and family. If you want to have forage fish and if you want to grow out LMB, you better be ready.

I'm located probably less than 20 miles from you over off the 2500 extension. Come over and compare notes some time. I'd offer to let you fish but the water turkeys caught them all...just kidding, but seriously, do not treat them lightly and do not listen to those who say they are harmless. Where we are located, the water turkeys pose the biggest threat to your fish...much bigger than any other problem you will encounter or will see discussed on this Forum. Believe me, I've been there.

I plan to take my shot gun this weekend...whoops I mean my camera. ......there's alot of love/money swimming around in that water. Any experence with the local fish stockers for f-1 bass ? Can you recommend anyone of them?

LakeL,

In your stocking program, which by the way sounds good to me, you didn't mention Tilapia. Check out some of the posts here on Tilapia and decide for yourself. I'm a huge believer in them. Read the recent Pond Boss magazine article on Tilapia..thats me that provided the words and story.

I'm stocking Tilapia on April 3 and also shocking my larger pond...come on over if you want to see the Tilapia and if you want some I'll order some extra for you.

Also, consider HSB...you may want to study this a bit but they are a terrific fish. Its a long story best told over a beer, but I've found LMB to become very smart and lure shy in a pond with artificial feeders...to the point you can't catch them. Catch and release does not work on small ponds with Florida bass and artificial feeders. Of that, I am sure. F1's may be different, I hope so cause I am also trying them this year in a new pond....but HSB, now thats a fish to consider.

I hope I have given you something to think about besides water turkeys.

I have used "Lakes of Danbury" and Overton Fisheries in the past...all my future business will be with Overton Fisheries. Todd is a great guy, very knowledgable...and best of all...he is open to new ideas such as Tilapia and gizzard shad.

You will find many folks who are closed minded about certain fish, but one thing you will also learn is that your situation is different from everyone else's and you have to find what works for you.

For me Tilapia work, big time...and HSB are simply terrific, better than LMB.

I'm using Danbury and have talked to Todd in the past.........he alerted me that Danbury wasn't presently carrying F1 bass.........though they said they had them..it turned out they were breeding they're first batch now...so he helped me out of what might of been a big mistake........thinking I was getting F1 earlier this spring.

Sorry guys I'm new to this what's HSB stand for? I was thinking Tilopia would not be good for 3-4 inch bass rather I might wait until my second year. As far as feeders are concern I have 3 hanging out there now but may pull them latter and replace them with one on my dock....would rather not tempt the bass with getting passive and not over feed. I have a good bloom and plan to keep it until June.

Todd is bringing me F1's on April 3. Consider what I said about Florida bass, HSB, and Tilapia.

I'm not sure about gizzard shad yet, jury is still out, but I think the verdict will be favorable, positive. Read the posts on the forum about gizzard shad.

Threadfin shad are very difficult to establish. I've tried twice without success...you need to stock large threadfins for breeding and then pray...it hasn't worked for me...but gizzards may. There is a danger of gizzard shad getting too large and taking over that has been pointed out to me by some, especially Bill Cody whom I respect greatly...but again every situation is different and we have to find what works best for us....and be open minded... in spite of what you may hear, everything about pond management has not been discovered and there are new and better ways of approaching problems.

Sorry...Hybrid Striped Bass (HSB)...read about them on the forum.

Bruce is a great source of info on them....and my friend George, who has seen the same things about LMB that I have seen, is growing them (HSB) in north Texas.

Yes this is my second attempt at threadfins before i give up..a rather expensive experiment........do you mind telling me the size of the f1 he is delivering and cost?

They are 2 to 3 inches...I'm a little hesitant to quote price but will via e-mial if you want to send me your address. Or you can call Todd direct and ask him.

Meadowlark,
If you use pure strain bass would you not end with f-1. I was thinking of adding some to native bass to change some blood lines. I might ask Todd if that would do any good. Just got back from fishing and it was great! Bass are on the nest water looks good wish I could have stayed longer.

bmccreight,

I've had the same thought and tried a couple of years ago, without success I might add, to change my "bass agressiveness" by introducing natives to the mix.

Suggest you start a new thread asking the experts on here to weight in on that question....can we make our own F1's by introducing natives and does that help with the lack of aggression we observe in the Floridas?

Yes, my LMB are also on the beds...its really fun to get on a high bank above them and watch the proceedings...but frustrating cause I can't catch them. I caught three real nice ones in about an hour last weekend, but should have caught 20 or more if they weren't so danged smart.

Gee Meadowlark, I hope we don't get those water turkeys up here (KC MO). I've had some diving Ducks lately. Did I understand that they are Commorants?
I'll have to look them up. Never heard of them around here, maybe I'll be lucky.

Houston Turner,

No, the diving ducks are different...they don't do enough harm to worry about IMHO...in fact, I just leave them alone. I don't even mind the herons we get. I kind of like them around.

The Cormorant, aka water turkey is an entirely different matter. Count yourself fortunate, indeed, if you don't have these pests. The water turkey is a fish eating machine, perfected by Nature and sometimes protected by Humans.