Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Overwintered Walleye Fingerling

I have a chance to get some overwintered walleye fingerling in the 4"-5" range from a dealer who has them in a tank with temperatures just above freezing. The dealer states these fingerling are used to stock lakes thru the ice and is the best method for introduction to an established lake with LMB. He states these overwintered fingerling will grow quick when introduced to new waters with good forage size fish and should not be eaten by my established LMB population as they will be inactive and later beyond the size wanted by my 12-16" LMB stocked 2-3 years ago? I'm wanting to purchase approx. 300 for my 19 ac lake but I also have a chance to wait until the fall and get some 6-8" walleye fingerling for the same purpose? Part of me says buy some now in the 4-5" overwintered and not really fed walleye fingerling and add some later in the fall with the 6-8" fingerling. Any suggestions and previous experienced welcome as I don't want these fingerling to be expensive feed for the LMB. Thanks

Rowly

Rowly,

I don't buy it. The bigger the walleye fingerlings you can plant the better. I don't think those walleye will be growing much until the water warms up enough for the largemouths to be active.

I'd wait until fall for larger walleyes.

Personally I think he wants to unload these walleyes and is feeding you a line. I've run into all types in the fish farming business.

It is possible these walleyes could be more bottom oriented and acclimated by the time the largemoths get acive in shallower water but I'm still skeptical.

I was told something similar about planting brown trout fingerlings into a pond with largemouths. I was told that if I planted late enough in the fall when the water was colder the bass would not bother the fingerlings due to the bass's slower metabolism. I planted some and bass were coming out of the woodwork to eat the fish. It was like they were the tastiest thing they had ever eaten! So it was not true.

Rowly - Hopefully Dr Dave W. will also give us his opinion on the better size of waleye to stock in your situation.

I agree with Cecil. The cross sectional size of an 8" walleye is barely larger than a fat cigar. Indeed a tasty morsel for a LMB. Walleye and LMB both inhabit bottom areas and should frequently encounter each other. I would not be as worried about predation losses of the 6"-8" walleye if you only had SMB in your pond. Large amounts of weed cover would be the only thing that could provide high survival rates for the 6"-8" walleye. The 4"-5" walleye have to grow to 8" before they begin to be relatively safe and then it is only relatively safe. I would expect at least 50%-70% losses of 6"-8"ers due to predation from 14"-16" LMB. Growing from 5"to 8" will take practically all summer in your lake; a long time to escape predation. If I had largemouths in my lake I would be stocking 10" to 12" walleye if you want a high percentage to survive.

Since you still have gravel operations going on at your place is there any chance that you can talk them into scooping out a small 1/4 to 1/3 acre pond for you. Maybe make it drainable. Raise minnows in it and each year or two plant some of those 4"-5" walleyes. Grow them to 10-12", seine them out and restock them in the bigger pond.

Ah heck, guys. I don't really know! I can only guess.

When I first read Rowly's post, I thought maybe there was something to the largemouths being inactive under the ice. They certainly are slower than most fish under the ice, although they certainly still do feed. However, a 4-5 inch walleye is darn small, and as already indicated, they won't grow much before the largemouths "warm up." The only possibility would be if the small walleyes are in the pond long enough to learn the habitat and perhaps be able to hide better?? However, largemouths can really get those small walleyes

Overall, I guess I have to agree with Cecil and Bill and admit to being a little skeptical. I do like Bill's idea of perhaps rearing them to a larger size. I'll bet you could easily get them to 12 inches by fall if they have some food (fatheads).

Cecil, Bill and Dave have lots more experience than I have so take these ideas for what they are costing you.

The very first day the ice went out of our lake a little bit, I was catching LMB on crank baits. The water couldn't ever have been too much colder and I was using a pretty fast retrieve.

When I stock walleye, I think that they have to be at least 14-15 inches long to survive bass and catfish predation. These are eating size fish to most people. One other thing, we have tremendous predation on smaller fish. Walleyes have to be at least this size to compete for the next size up of forage.

I don't know the answer for sure either. I am just baseing my answer on comon sense and my experiences with LMB. This can be another MS thesis project for one of Dave's students. Put some 12"-13" LMB in a pond with bgill and 5" walleye. Add a little cover. Let it "cook" for one month. Drain and see what survives.

PS Norm your method of stocking 14" walleye I bet produces higher survival for the dollars spent than the method recommended by Rowly's fish man.

Cecil, Bill, Dr. Dave and Norm:

I hear ya......this dealer is very reliable and from the Bay of Quite area in Ontario (a 4 1/2 hour drive for me). A big time producer of fingerling walleye for the Province, varies trout, LMB, white and black crappie, bluegill etc. Pottsy from the Ottawa area has put me onto this large grower, his way. Cecil, he even has fee fishing for 8 lb rainbows all season long with open water to cast? Sells smoked fish, a man of many talents I guess and a large operation. He works with the MNR and stocks lakes, etc., BUT the 4-5" overwintered idea I'm not so sure about.....as well. At $3 a piece it may not be worth the risk??????

Bill, have you been reading my mind, I was considering the idea of having the pit guys dig me a small pond before they finished hopefully by year end, closer to the house for varies growouts and experiments. Funny thing, when I was negotiating to buy the house and property there was a small approx 80' x 20' pond behind the lake with a shallow stream area to the lake but they filled it in before I signed the deal in one day, they are always moving unwanted fill around!

Any ideas on the size of pond for growout of varies fish....such as length, width, depth, etc. The only condition is that once dug it can't be drained, ground water fed to surface water height. Should I have a small stream canel to the lake to allow a few minnows to escape or secure it totally? Just thinking aloud.....Thanks

Rowly

Rowly - At $3 ea I would not be stocking 4"-5" walleye in with 13 " bass no matter what a fish seller told me. I would want some kind of guarantee at $3 ea and we know you will not get any type of warranty. If you stocked 50 to 100 per acre you could feasably get some sort of walleye survival to 14" long in the presence of lots of cover. But look at the profit the seller gets at 50fish/acre at $3 ea. I would like to see this guy plant some of his 4"-5" walleye in one of his small 0.1-0.2 ac ponds with 12" to 14" bass and forage minnows. The 4"-5" fingerling walleye will be just big minnows to those bass. Then sample it at summers end. Then I might buy his fingerlings. That one has to be proven to me that the theory works. I've worked with LMB too long to believe that fish story.

If you won't be able to drain a small pond then you have to figure out a way to get most if not all the fish out esp predator types before restocking with the next batch of fish. Seining the pond is probably your best method for removing fish unless someone else has a better idea.

Would it be possible to pump or siphon it down several feet then seine it quick before the ground water seepage refills it? From what I understnd about your property there is probably no way to build the pond on a higher level and install a drain. Drainable option will determine how wide of a pond to build vs the length of a seine to buy. If you would not be able to drain it you would have to rotenone it between stockings if you are stocking /growing fish such as walleye. Long and narrow will probably be your best shape. Try to orient the long axis toward the prevailing winds to optimize natural mixing from the wind. I have a pond 60 ft wide and use a 100 ft seine to remove fish. Depth should be about 6 ft unless you plan to overwinter fish in it then depth should be upto 8 ft and keep some snow off it when snow gets deep for lengthy periods. A windmill in this case could keep an area open during winter to minimize chance of winter kill. Shallower ponds are much easier to seine. Deeper than 8 ft without a draining option will make seining pretty difficult. You will probably have to resort to chemcials to keep the weeds down in the pond or use ducks, geese, swans for some weed control. These flying toilets will also help fertilize the small pond for plankton production.

Bill:

I will have a pond made this summer or late fall, once closer to completion and near final grade of the west lake shoreline where they are removing the aggregate. I already have a seine minnow net some 60'long x 4'deep. My father some years ago had a bait business while I was growing up and he had a license to seine minnows from Lake Erie @ Port Stanley, nearly due north of you some 60 miles by water from the Ohio shoreline. We used to catch thousands of "emerald shiners" each sein during specific times of the spring and early summer each year near the break waters and piers and move them to our holding tanks in the shop and holding pond in the back yard for sale to the perch fishermen and ladies throughout that year.

Back to the growout pond......maybe I will have a small 40' x 80'or something sized pond dug out with the longer axis facing east-west as you pointed out. My thoughts are I won't be really using this too much but have the option for seasonal growouts of a few hundred fish such as fingerling walleye,HSB,or SMB, etc (Bob Koerber maybe even a few hundred koi)..but just in case I will have it at least 4-6' deep for overwintering if longer periods are required before release into the larger lake. There is no way the water could be pumped out fast enough as the "B" gravel base would fill back in with the abundance of ground water available but overall I really couldn't complain. The koender windmill would be a must as they are great and enjoyable to watch.

The reason I'm being aggressive about the walleye establishment is that I want to pay back my father who is in his early 80's and having more difficulty getting around each year but I could make it a friendly place for him to still fish his favorite sport fish and remain young at heart. I think my best option is to buy fall walleye fingerling this year that are larger in the 6-9" range and stock in the later fall as the bass become more inactive say in early November. My fear is the longer I wait, the bigger the LMB will grow from introduction 2-3 years ago. Thanks as always....

Rowly

Is there a lake in your neighborhood where you and your dad could catch a couple 10"-12" walleye each trip and transport them back to the pond? One or two fish could be fairly easy to hold an hour or two and when the third fish is caught then transport all 3 home in a garbage can? Holding more than two fish for a couple hours in warmer water could get tricky. Several trips could get you a dozen larger fish to junp start your population.

You will have to be diligent with weed control with a nursery pond just 4'to 6' deep. I am not sure how a fertilization program would work for you based on your water chem. What are the alkalinities in your gravel pit?

Rowly, I picked up my fingerlings from Tony in November 2002 @ 2-3" and $1.50 per. Survival in a pond with some larger LMB/SMB and stocked at the same time as 2" LMB was pretty good as far as I can tell. They did grow some over the winter and were all of 8-10" after the first spring/summer. (Now 14"+). I think it will depend alot on the density of LMB already existing in your pond and the current forage base. (I was very heavy on similar size minnows at the time of stocking the walleye)

At $1.50 per I would be willing to chance their survival... at worst add a little to the girth of your bass, but at $3.00 per I can't say that I would.

Bill and Pottsy:

Yes, there are walleye in my area. I have the Thames river near by that they spawn in almost anytime now....from Lake St. Claire and of course Lake Erie is minutes away. MNR says Lake Erie is supposed to have large #'s this year (estimated 40 millon walleye 2 yrs and older with most being 2 yrs old...at the peak in 1988 estimated 70 million walleye) like they were 10-17 years ago from the studies their biologists conducted last year? It's too bad, someone close by doesn't use these brood stock to hatch fingerling? Maybe I should try to transport a few smaller ones to my lake in #'s of 2-3 as Bill suggests. Pottsy, Tony is quite the salesman but for that price and only avg 4" I agree its veryyyyyy risky. He says he can grade his 4-8" fall walleye but he charges $5 apiece for the most largest graded ones. It seems very expensive when you want 300-400.......I need to find a solution somehow.....

Rowly

Rowly, if you are looking for 300-400 fingerlngs... $3-5 a pop is really not what I would consider a viable option. Then again.. if you can afford maybe 100 of the 7-8" and they would make your dad happier then an equivelent bass when in a year they are 12"+ fish .... might be worth it.

Pottsy:

I agree, I will try this spring and early summer to catch a few native small walleye from Lake Erie and the Thames River. If #'s caught are low then I will buy the biggest fingerling Tony has in the fall. Hopefully, I can catch 30-50 12-18" lake walleye first????? But the last time I caught walleye from Lake Erie (before buying this property and rehabing it in 2002)they were lungers from 5-11 lbs....... I like the idea of establishing a brood stock in the lake, take their eggs and move to the small grow out pond(s), I will build new pond (s)to hatch and grow until each fall when I can seine and move back to the 19 ac lake. Has anyone done this themselves with success growing their own walleye from their own brood stock???? Success meaning some 6-9" fingerling....eggs gathered, hatched and grown in a grow out pond, seined and moved to larger body of water to grow the rest of their lives. I will need to have 2-3 grow out ponds for 1. forage minnows after the walleye fingerling are large enough and 2. If I want larger #'s of successful fingerling, grading them into different sized ponds as they grow and reducing cannabolism.
Any feedback is welcome. thanks

Rowly