Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations fathead spawning site

I will soon be placing some pallets as a spawning site for fathead minnows and have a few questions regarding placement:
1)direct sun or shady spot, maybe under dock?
2)close to deep water?
3)block pallets with small cedars to help give them some protection?
4)minimum water depth?
Thank you, What a great site!

Marc - try the following web site for a nice little publication on production of fathead minnows. It doesn't answer all of your specific questions, but has good general biological information on fathead minnow culture.

http://www.govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2003/617/6170030.pdf

Now, here's another way to get to that publication, and also see what else the Southern Regional Aquaculture Center has on baitfish production. First, click on the following link.

http://www.msstate.edu/dept/srac/fslist.htm

Then, click on "BAIT FISH" and that will take you to a list of nine publications from which to choose. "Forage Species: Production Techniques" seems to have the most useful information.

Thank you for the links Dave. Any information I can get adds to the overall picture that a new pond owner needs to understand regarding proper pond management.

Dave: I read all of the articles in the links you led me to and although they did not answer the questions I posted, I did get some other info I did not think of before. Would appreciate any input on the questions in the original post.

Marc -- I'll toss out a few thoughts, but let's hope for other input. I'm not expert on your tough questions. :-)

1)direct sun or shady spot, maybe under dock? I've seen them spawning in both locations. You did not mention what else is in the pond. If LMB are present, you'll need protected locations to give the fatheads a chance, so shady would be good.

2)close to deep water? I don't know, and am not sure why it would matter. If LMB are present, the fatheads will ONLY be in shallow water. They will stay under the top board on the pallet and spawn upside down. They like to spawn on the side of stand pipes, especially in the shade of a dock. They will spawn on the sides or even burrow a little under a big rock.

3)block pallets with small cedars to help give them some protection? Absolutely, especially if LMB are present.

4)minimum water depth? We often used floating boards (e.g., 1 in X 6 in X 10 ft), and staked both ends. Ropes to the stakes would allow the boards to go up and down with water level. The boards would be right up against the shoreline, and the fatheads certainly used them. I don't know if this is optimal, but they certainly use them.

Like I said, these answers are based on limited experience. If any of the other pondmeisters out there can help, PLEASE do so.

Dave: Thank you for your responses. LMB are present in large numbers although there seems to be an abundance of 9 to 12 inch fish. Have not caught or eyeballed any larger than those. Just bought this pond in December "04" so have had little chance to get a good feel for population. I have caught about 15 bass of that size when the ice gave me an opening. After reading all the posts on this site regarding an overabundance of bass I feel I am headed in the culling direction with my pond. I will wait until the spring fling before deciding what I really have in there. Sure has been hard to sit and look at an ice covered pond for almost 3 months! It is driving me crazy although my wife says that's a short drive!

That's pretty cool! New pond. Lots of fun to come! Never thought about that waiting period. :-)

An abundance of 9-12 inch largemouth bass usually is pretty diagnostic. Unless the population is young (newly established), they could very well be crowded. If you have any panfish species, such as bluegill, they should be big! If bluegills are present, many should be at least 8 inches long (0.5 lb).

In my opinion, you're going to have a VERY hard time establishing fathead minnows in a pond with a crowded bass population. You're probably going to be feeding a few bass, and not much else. Now, there have been a few dissenting opinions on this topic lately. However, I've had quite a bit of experience with largemouth bass and fatheads in ponds, and the fatheads usually disappear within a couple of years of largemouths being present.

A better prey species may be the bluegill. Do you have them present? If not, introducing some adults this spring would provide a lot more prey for your bass than will the fathead minnow stocking.

Pond is about 1.75 acres and maximum depth I have found is about 13 feet. Have not caught a BG yet but have seen a few in the 3 to 5 inch range. Had one hand sized BG follow a beetle spin without hitting. There are channel cats also according to the seller along with 3 grass carp. In addition to the pallets for fatheads I am adding some pea gravel onto a fairly large flat where there is leftover evidence of about 30 BG beds from last year. I have learned from this site that BG are the prime forage for LMB and should get a better handle on BG stats in the spring.

Sounds good, Marc. Obviously, you'll know a lot more once the ice goes off and things warm.

If the bluegills are primarily of that smaller size (i.e., <6 in), don't jump to the conclusion that your largemouth bass are crowded. It's possible that the pond community is relatively young, and was not stocked too long ago. Any possibility of that?

Sounds to me like you already have a good handle on how to assess your new fish community.

Not sure of the age of the pond. The previous owner was there for 8 years and the pond was present when he purchased the property. He was not into fishing so he could not give me much help with details nor did he do any kind of stocking except for the 3 grass carp. Is it true that grass carp eat less plants as they age? I think that the quickest and best way to get a better idea of the population is to have the lake shocked. I have been told that it would be better to do this in the fall as you would be able to find out how this years spawn went. Do you agree? Again, thank you for your help!

Hi Marc. Sorry for the delay. Had a couple of days of meetings in DC.

Your information on grass carp is at least partially correct. As they age, their metabolism slows, and they do not need to consume as much food. However, this is tempered somewhat by the fact that bigger fish eat more food. Do you see my point? They may eat/need less plant consumption per pound of body size, but they are still big and do consume plants. Also, grass carp can get REALLY big -- 40 pounds plus, and I'm not exactly sure where this slowing of metabolism occurs. I'd guess not until they exceed roughly 15-20 pounds. Maybe another of the southern pondmeisters knows more about this.

I do have one caution. It's easy to stock enough grass carp to strip all of your submergment (underwater) vegetation. At your geographic location, you want vegetation unless it gets extremely abundant. Unless your sumbergent vegetation covers more than 20-30% of the pond surface area in midsummer, I'd leave it alone. That vegetation provides food and cover for your young largmeouth bass.

If your pond has been established that long, I don't think what happens this year for reproduction is all that important. I like electrofishing in either spring or fall, generally at water temps of 65-75 F. So, if you want a pond survey, which indeed will tell you a LOT about what is happening, I'd feel free to do it this spring. They can tell you what has been happening for reproduction and surivival of bass and bluegill for the past 10 years (not just this year)!

Thank you for your reply Dave. I have not seen the grass carp yet but will keep an eye on the weed growth this spring. I agree that I need a certain amount of vegetation. It is good to have an idea of the proper ratio. This pond management "stuff" might be as much fun as catching fish!

Ho ho! Another pondmeister is "hooked."

Dave: You mentioned earlier on 3-10-05 that if I had BG in the pond with stunted bass that the BG should be big. You called it exactly right! With a recent warm spell I have been catching and seeing large numbers of BG and all of them are in the 6-7 inch range. Have only seen a few BG smaller than that which seems to fit with too many small bass. I have started to pull bass under 12 inches out of the pond. I have only caught 2 bass larger than 12 inches. and they were barely 14 inches! Does that sound like a reasonable plan for now until I get a better handle on population when the water warms further! Again, I thank you for your help!

Hi Marc. Yes, that does sound like a reasonable plan. Please remember that as you remove smaller largemouth bass, there will be less predation on the small bluegills, and the bluegill average size will eventually decrease. If you want to manage for bigger bass, then this is generally considered an acceptable trade-off.

The Indiana DNR pond management booklet is available online.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/publications/fsmgt/fishmgt.pdf

However, it does not really address the harvest of small bass. I wonder if you could use the guidelines from Missouri on harvest of small bass in northern parts of the state (with more fertile soils). Try the following link (aquaguide on "stockpiled" bass).

http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/documents/fish/aquaguides/2_360.pdf

Dave: Thank you for the links!