Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,082
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
9 members (Freg, Jared015, Justin W, LeighAnn, Donatello, Theo Gallus, Sunil, homewardbound, DenaTroyer), 729 guests, and 217 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
I have small pond 40 ft by about 100 ft, deep 8 to 6 feet across. This Spring friend of mine gave me about 10 common carps. The size is from 12'' to 16'' or so. They been doing great, eating and growing all summer. About month ago I found one big carp dead. I assumed it's rotten leaves issue and started to aerate 2-3 hours at night. It was some ice, but weather was mild. I found one more dead carp week later and started to aerate whole night. I have pretty powerful 1.5 HP pump for the size of my pond. Couple days later I found 3 more dead carps. So, DO was not apparently the issue. I stopped aerating but week after found one more dead carp. They appeared healthy, no spots or parasites that I can see. I have some bluegill and several Large Mouth . Non of those seem to get affected.
I'm devastated. Those carps survived one hour trip in trash containers with little water, hot weather, fall floods, herons visiting the pond and now dying like crazy. Water is crystal clear. Pond is fed by spring that goes in on one side and excess water is coming on other side.
My first thought was that I dropped temp too much melting all the ice with aeration, but fish is still dying with no aeration at all.
Is there anything I can do at this point? Why do you think fish is dying?
Thank you for advice.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
You may not be aware, but most folks would love a way to selectively remove invasive European carp from their ponds. If this is a disease, you might contact your fisheries extension folks and see if they might want to isolate the disease organism to use as a biological control agent.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
are these typical brown carp found in every puddle, pond or lake? or are these colorful carp, Koi?

What was the advantage or desirable features of your carp that you miss?

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
LOL , it's a brown carp. This is my third year with pond , I recently made it bigger and deeper and now ina process of getting some life in it. So, I'll take anything live and swimming.

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
So, You think it is some kind of disease?

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
No idea if it is a disease, but a disease that is specific to common carp would be a great tool for getting this invasive exotic out of ponds (you wrote that your BG and LMB are OK).

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
Yes, not sure we are aware of carp specific diseases. In fact, carp are so hardy and tolerant of poor water quality and low oxygen that they pretty much can almost come to the top and breathe air through their gills when under stress. Usually they survive long after all the other 'sportfish' are dead.

However, there are studies that show that a fairly low concentration of insecticide using the common ingredient bifenthrin or permethrin or related chemical is a selective poison for carp and not for other kinds of fish. An accidental spill or run off of insecticide into the water would take out the carp and not the other fish if the concentration was high enough for long enough.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Was not aware of the specificity of some pyrethroids. Good info!

Update: This paper shows BG more sensitive than Carp to bifenthrin (Table 12.4)

https://books.google.com/books?id=vsjECQAAQBAJ&pg=PA314&lpg=PA314&dq=pyrethroids+most+sensitive+fish+%22carp%22&source=bl&ots=IFkuF-jQ_z&sig=ACfU3U14xBFuKc9rZWj37or1T1mD4FD09A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwis4tG-rannAhVLJt8KHUVWApg4ChDoATAGegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=pyrethroids%20most%20sensitive%20fish%20%22carp%22&f=false


Last edited by RAH; 01/29/20 12:47 PM.
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,892
Likes: 144
different pyrethroids have different potency (synthetic vs natural).

Different studies have reported widely differing toxicities even in subspecies of carp

Also, you would need a targeting mechanism. It wipes out the whole invetebrate/insect chain as those smaller critters are not immune to the nerve poison effect. So there are studies using corn or bread balls saturated in the solution to try to target the carp only.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
Now I understand. The bait is specific rather than the pyrethroid.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Since the carp are the largest fish in the pond, they could possibly all have died at the same time from a low O2 event and you are just seeing them now. Since the bass and bluegill are smaller, even though they need a bit more O2 to stay alive, being much smaller they might have survived where the larger fish didn't.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
R
RAH Offline
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 281
I was surprised that I lost all of my CC, but LMB and BG survived a winterkill. Larger sized fish do seem more vulnerable. I did think that carp were particularly resistant to low O2?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1354/vp.43-3-302

Also see Table A3 here:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1354/vp.43-3-302

Last edited by RAH; 01/30/20 07:35 AM.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 175
I
Offline
I
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 175
I'm not an expert, so I just report on a personal experience. In my pond there are grass carp (20-25 lb), common carp (0-13 lb), LMB (0-4 lb), crucians (0-3 lb) and other smaller fish.
Some summer ago, due to a sudden change in atmospheric pressure during a very hot period, there was a sudden drop in DO which led to a serious fish kill.
About 200 fish died and I had to remove them to avoid hygiene and odor problems. Out of about 200 dead fish there were:
- 1 22 lb grass carp,
- almost all the larger LMB (about forty),
- about eighty LMB between 0.5 and 1 lb,
- about eighty large crucians.
No common carp died, neither large nor small.

Another thing related to common carp: when friends ask me for their ponds, being quite big fish and having to transport many of them every time, I transport them "dry", that is I put them all together in a large tub without water, then I put wet jute clothes and ice on it. I made hour-long trips like this and the carp always came safely.

All above to say that is not always true that the biggest fish is the less resistant to low DO.


Filippo

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Sunil - 03/28/24 12:39 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by Sunil - 03/28/24 12:39 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 11:01 AM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5