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#513624 - 11/03/19 12:58 AM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
While Iíve used polymers with great success sealing ponds I harbor issues with that video - namely, they are FAR exceeding the recommended application amount to affect a seal. So while it looks compelling it's just not an accurate representation of the polymer ability. I can explain further - give me a call 402.730.4897 or drop on email anytime at tj@hudlandmgmt.com.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#513631 - 11/03/19 08:31 AM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2991
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
My primary job for the past 44 yrs has been to stabilize well bores. This included controlling fluid/water losses when drilling sands, fractured formations, and reducing water losses into water absorbing shales and clays. We used polymers and clays(bentonite etc) and corn starch when sealing off these formations. It's my opinion that a combination of both clay along starch works best to reduce fluid/water losses. But I have some concerns when using starch in fresh water ponds. So polymers with clays are most likely be the best way to go. There are several ways it might be applied depending on what the problem might be. I am not trying to step on Tj's recommendation's or to market another product. Fact is I have bought SoilFloc off of Tj to seal off vertical walls in my sediment pond. But here only to pass along a little experience on how to seal off water seepage. Here is a little information. Phillips Petroleum designed a product (polymer) back in the 60's that was used to spread on the ground so when it rained the water would run off and not absorbed into the ground. Or what we call water loss control. This was designed to stop the mud slides in California. This product was adapted to the drilling of wells to reduce water losses which most likely lead to water loss control in ponds.
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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#513647 - 11/03/19 08:33 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 6060
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks Tracy! Very interesting stuff. I really like learning about the evolution of technologies and how they are repurposed for even more benefit.
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#514717 - 12/07/19 12:18 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
HaBi Farm Offline


Registered: 08/03/19
Posts: 9
Loc: SE Nebraska
We moved to our large acreage 30 years ago and the only thing it lacked was a reliable pond. There is a pond dam for about a 1/10 acre pond that drains roughly 15-20 acres of grassland, but nearly every summer it is dry except for a few weeks. One problem is that there is a brown sandstone type rock in the immediate area and also some glacial till. Also I didn't keep up with the trees around the pond site and now there are a couple of dozen 30 year old cottonwoods plus a few of other species. Cutting them down will be one of my major projects this winter. Or if I get inpatient, hire a contractor to come in to get rid of them.

This past summer was one of the wettest on record for our area. Instead of being dry except for a few weeks, the pond had water in it except for a few weeks. A nearby creek was also running good all summer, and the better it runs it seems like the more likely the pond will have some water in it. Full depth to the overflow is maybe 8 feet but the pond loses water pretty fast down to the ring of cottonwoods at about 4 foot of depth. The banks are not eroded, there is a sediment pond uphill, and the bottom does not have a lot of sediment load in it.

I'm not expecting to ever have a fishing pond, but am willing to experiment with SoilFloc to see if it can keep several feet of water in it most years. Depending on how much chainsaw work I do there this winter, the plan is to throw in some SoilFloc from shore this Spring when it's at the 4 foot depth, then followup with another application from shore when it's closer to the overflow depth.

Wish me luck!

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#514718 - 12/07/19 01:34 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hey Husker!

Feel free to reach out anytime as Iíve worked on hundreds of polymer projects and am happy to help in any way I can. I can also get my Pond Boss family a discount on the polymer.

Tj@hudlandmgmt.com
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#514719 - 12/07/19 01:47 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
DannyMac Online   content


Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 128
Loc: Bexar county Texas
In respect of polymer flocs for ponds, it would be great to have a product that also held the sunken muck. leaves, etc in place or otherwise prevented re-entrainment in the water column. Ideally, it would still allow bacteria and enzymes access to the organic material.
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DannyMac

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#514823 - 12/11/19 04:57 AM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
Steve_ Offline


Registered: 10/29/19
Posts: 18
Loc: North Carolina
I know every project is unique, but in your opinion, what are the chances that this product could replace the necessity of using a liner for a small pond? I live in a valley and get tons of water runoff in my backyard, to the point where itís always wet almost anytime of the year. Iíve dug a small hole (maybe 3í x 3í and 18Ē deep) and itís held water for the most part for three weeks now. My plan for it is simply as a small bait pond, maybe something in the area of 10Ď x 10Ď, and 3 to 4 feet deep. I want to keep it as natural as possible, and donít want to invest in a liner, but I will if I have to. Any thoughts on this? Would bentonite clay or a liner be a better option? Thank you.

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#514829 - 12/11/19 12:32 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2153
Loc: West Michigan
For your needs, the cheapest liner would be to buy a used billboard sign tarp. Probably one tarp would be all you need and you could cut the short way and adhere two pieces side by side to cover the bottom and sides and even have extra.

It is simple to attach to pieces using standard PVC pipe primer and glue.

The tarps are freely available on ebay and very cheap. You have to be a little cautious when wheeling loads of dirt or gravel on it to not puncture it but they are pretty tough. A tiny split can easily be patched with additional sign tarp and glue.

There is a thread about this where a much larger pond was lined this way and it worked really well (and is still holding).

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#514834 - 12/11/19 01:33 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: Steve_]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: Steve_
I know every project is unique, but in your opinion, what are the chances that this product could replace the necessity of using a liner for a small pond? I live in a valley and get tons of water runoff in my backyard, to the point where itís always wet almost anytime of the year. Iíve dug a small hole (maybe 3í x 3í and 18Ē deep) and itís held water for the most part for three weeks now. My plan for it is simply as a small bait pond, maybe something in the area of 10Ď x 10Ď, and 3 to 4 feet deep. I want to keep it as natural as possible, and donít want to invest in a liner, but I will if I have to. Any thoughts on this? Would bentonite clay or a liner be a better option? Thank you.


Hi Steve:

Bentonite can seal a pond - it must be tilled into the liner and plated and compacted with 12-18" high plasticity clay in 6" lifts. Adding bentonite between each layer of clay can provide additional insurance. Cost of bentonite install is typically high considering one must have a dry area in which to work and a contractor on site to operate equipment [dozer, sheepsfoot roller, maybe an excavator]. Bentonite also must be sourced and freight can be expensive. Lastly, not all bentonite is created equally, expansion rates vary from 2x to 16x. The chances your provider will truly know are slim, so one is guessing on application rates, which can further drive up your cost.

Pond liners run $1 - $2/sq ft professionally installed - for most projects this blows the budget out of the water - but considering your small footprint it might be an option.

I have zero experience with billboard liners - have to defer to others.

A clay liner installed is the best long term solution, but again you're looking at equipment costs, contractor involvement, and one needs access to high plasticity clay to install 12-24" compacted in 6" lifts.

I like polymers as they are far cheaper, require no equipment or contractors involved, and can be applied to a hydrated pond. Often I find the polymer the most cost effective route to take. We're reducing seepage by at least 50% in nearly all the projects in which I've been involved. Feel free to ping me anytime, happy to walk through your options - sounds like a cool project!

tj@hudlandmgmt.com
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#514835 - 12/11/19 02:02 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: swampsnyper]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: swampsnyper
I conversed with TJ on my leak issues. My 1/2 acre pond in central Alabama was dug last year for the second time. 1st time we hit rock or sandstone on one end and it would never hold water or fill for that matter. So I repositioned the pond and dug it more on the clay side. Some areas were sandy below the clay and eventually hit rock. We spread the clay capping the bottom and sides with a dozer. The pond is between 2 hills with a 20ft damn on the low side. The dam was build with the best clay I had and we dug it down about 5ft below the bottom of the pond before we built it up layer by layer of packed clay. The 2 hills was where all the clay was but the bottom of the valley is where most of the rock was located. We packed about 2ft of clay on the bottom but the way the bottom of the pond is formed, it all slopes to the dam. I waited of rain water to fill the pond which was a slow processes over 6 months. Rain was far between at 1st and the pond would eventually dry before the next rain. This caused all the watershed water to run down the valley against my dam. This fast running of water dug trenches in the bottom of my pond and because it wouldn't fill It kept washing out these trenches time and time again until my clay liner was gone. Eventually we started getting more rain with lots of rain fall. The pond filled to my over flow siphon system. But because of the washouts in my clay liner, I was losing water fast.
This is when I gave TJ a call. I told him what was going on. He asked many questions to make sure that there was no other problems that also needed to be addressed. He suggested I get a baseline of my water leakage and put a pipe with 1/2in increments on it to measure daily water lost. After a week I reported back to him that I was loosing 2in per day.
We were confident that it wasn't leaking through the dam and my biggest issue was down the center of the pond floor were the natural valley had washed out my clay liner. We estimated that area to be a 1/4 acre in size and he suggested I put out 6 units of soilfloc on it.
I waited until a good rain came and gave me almost full pool and also waited for an evening with no wind. I got 2 neighbors over to hold a rope across my pond. I had 3ft markers on each bank for them to move to after each pass as my son pulled the boat along the rope as I through out a scoop of each part of the soilfloc. After a few passes we decided it was easier to mix the 2 parts in a 5 gallon bucket. It seemed to have a better mixing affect as it hit the water and was a lot easier on me and the guys on the bank. You just have to make sure everything is staying dry because any moisture will cause it to gel once it's mixed. We continued to cover the area marker by marker but I found throwing the mix high and far made a more even coat once it hit the water. If I tried to throw it in my 3ft area, some would hit the water in a clump and it wouldn't mix well on the water. These white clumps crystalized and lasted for days on the water before it sunk. Throwing it high and far hit the water like a fine dust and made a good gel. So we decided to forget the 3ft grid pattern. I'd sling a scoop out as far as I could and work our way from bank to bank. You could see the thick gel floating on the water so you had a visual marker to throw to each pass. I covered the 1/4 acre area thinking it was very thick and it was. I couldn't have put any more on it because when I would throw more on top of the gel, it wouldn't get wet and stay white powder on top. It seemed like there was 6in of more of gel on the water and I covered my target area and only went through 3 of the 6 units. I didn't want to drag the boat through the gelled area to add more soilfloc because I was afraid of cutting gaps in the gel and not getting a good solid blanket on the bottom. So we called it a night.
The next morning It had all sank except the few white clumps where I put it too thick, but in a few days they sank. I was debating what I should do with the other 3 units. Should I cover the same area again super thick, or put a thinner layer over the whole 1/2 acre. It was windy for a few days so I had time to think about it and watch my water level. It seemed to work almost over night. With in a few days my pond went from loosing 2in a day to 1/2 an inch a day with only 1/2 the suggested application.
Now I was really confused. Did I seal the target area and have a small leak else where, or is my leak still in the target area. I decided I was gonna coat the whole pond with the remaining 3 units. I did it alone, paddling the boat starting at one end of the pond and working my way back, throwing it high and far. I mixed all my remaining units in 5 gallon buckets on the bank and took 5 at a time with me. It covered the pond well. It was thicker than I thought. Being that the whole pond was full of it, it seemed to level itself out uniformly as it pushed off the banks. In a few hours it sank.
Now my pond is losing water at a 1/4in or less daily. This stuff is pretty amazing. Thanks to TJ for all his help.


Awesome, Swamp!
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#514846 - 12/12/19 01:40 AM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
Steve_ Offline


Registered: 10/29/19
Posts: 18
Loc: North Carolina
Awesome, thank you TJ and Canyon for the replies and information.

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#515344 - 12/31/19 05:04 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
BamTX Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 1
Loc: Texas
I am looking for something to help with a dug pond. I am in South Texas and the pond was dug and lined with clay from our site whe nwe built a house right before Hurricane Harvey. The pond was coming up slowly and Harvey filled it completely in about 8 hours. This washed the clay fairly deeply. We have decent drainage to the pond and also have a 1 inch line for pumping when needed. Seems like you can get it to about 6 feet then it starts leaking. Maximum depth is probably around 10 feet.

Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: It is about 1/2 acre in size.


Edited by BamTX (12/31/19 05:41 PM)

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#515346 - 12/31/19 06:07 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hi Bam and welcome to the forum. Are you experiencing water loss due to a leak in your clay liner? If so feel free to reach out anytime -I help guys nationwide to address pond seeping issues and my time is free to my Pond Boss Family.

Feel free to ping me anytime: tj@hudlandmgmt.com
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#515627 - 01/10/20 05:59 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
HaBi Farm Offline


Registered: 08/03/19
Posts: 9
Loc: SE Nebraska
Update and a question on my 1/10 acre pond renovation.

First the question. I am cutting down several 24" diameter cottonwoods that will be in about 4' of water if I can get the pond sealed with SoilFloc. Am hoping to get an excavator to dig out the stumps and fill in the holes with dirt from the bottom/sides of the pond. I'm concerned about the stump holes needing time for the dirt to settle, and also about the cottonwood roots sprouting all over the place even though I'm putting Tordon RTU on each stump as soon as it is cut. How long should I wait before applying SoilFloc?

Second, the update. Unseasonably nice weather here in southeast Nebraska. Highs in the 40s and even lower 50s through Thursday this week, so my chainsaw has been seeing daily duty. Got about 1/3 of the trees cut down including all of them that were on the face of the dam. Big brush piles to burn this Spring or Summer. Hope the excavator can handle the cottonwood logs, anything over about 16" is too much for my chainsaw and tractor. There is a place nearby where they can get put, wish someone around here had a use for them. HOWEVER, as I type this on Friday there are several inches of snow on the ground and more on the way, with a high of 22 tomorrow. So may not get back down there for a month or two as it's about 400 yards from the house on a north facing slope.

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#515628 - 01/10/20 06:17 PM Re: SoilFloc Polymer Sealant [Re: teehjaeh57]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8284
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Hey Husker!

Feel free to reach out anytime as Iíve worked on hundreds of polymer projects and am happy to help in any way I can. I can also get my Pond Boss family a discount on the polymer.

Tj@hudlandmgmt.com
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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