Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Hasan, ElijahElliott, kirkm, 3Ponds, KenHorton
16312 Registered Users
Forum Stats
16312 Members
36 Forums
37286 Topics
508284 Posts

Max Online: 3583 @ 01/15/20 02:21 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24173
ewest 20043
Cecil Baird1 20043
Dave Davidson1 14173
Bill Cody 13097
Who's Online
12 registered (wbuffetjr, Bobbss, saint_abyssal, 5444, Jambi, Brettski, Sunil, Snipe, gehajake, Theo Gallus, ShortCut, rjackson), 968 Guests and 582 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#514843 - 12/11/19 05:17 PM SMB / YP / RES - Now what?
bcraley Offline


Registered: 06/18/18
Posts: 27
Loc: Ohio
March 2018 - Pond dug - 1/3 acre - Currently very clear water with Chara covering 15% of bottom.

May 2018 - Stocked 4# FHM

Oct 2018 - Stocked 50 2-4" RES / 24 GAM

April 2019 - Stocked 25 RES 2-4" / 100 YP 4-5" / 5# FHM

May 2019 - Stocked 25 3-4" SMB

Will be adding aeration in March or as soon as ice is out this spring.

Lost 6 SMB due to erosion matting that hung into the pond. Have since removed all netting that hangs into full pool of pond. Terrible mistake on my part!

Fished the pond in October for the first time and caught SMB that measured 9.5" and very plump. Also caught YP ranging from 8-9" also plump. No sign of the RES.

I still have FHM swimming but schools are much smaller than in spring.

Hand fed over the summer and fall. YP take pellets well.

Question:

1. Should I consider stocking 10 or 15 SMB this spring to replace the ones I lost in the netting and to give me another year class?

2. Will my YP spawn this spring?

3. Should I add GS this spring as a supplemental forage for my SMB?

In 2020 will it be time for me to start culling YP? Is there study/suggestions that shows best slot limits for YP / SMB / RES pond?

Top
#514862 - 12/12/19 12:57 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2153
Loc: West Michigan
bcraley,
It is so encouraging to see your update posted here. If only more new pond owners would be given the advice or have the knowledge that you had. It looks as if you have set up a fabulous mix of forage and larger fish.
This could be the poster child project for a LMB free, BG free, HB free, and catfish free pond. A few years ago this type of pond was deemed improbably, impossible, or perhaps guaranteed unsusccessful as it goes against standard stocking practices. This forum is a great place for folks to learn about less traditional stocking strategies.
I'm eager to hear about those who had done a RES/YP/Walleye pond and how that works out for them.

I'd like to see updates in the future on a few things.

How do the FHM survive? Do gambusia overwinter in your area of OH? I assume that would mean if they survive year to year that they do well under ice? Or do they have to be resupplied every year?

Sounds like your SMB are growing and thriving! Do you have crayfish? Is your intention to or did you already place spawning structures for the SMB so they reproduce?

Question 1. If your SMB reproduce then you would be glad to see that and save money in stocking more SMB. SMB reproduce in a pond but are fussy about shape/size/location/orientation of spawning structure. If they were cheap and you didn't want to wait and see if spawning happens then 10-15 SMB would be an inexpensive solution.

Question 2. Your YP are large enougn to lay ribbons this spring. You stocked 100, probably a small proportion are the largest females that will drop eggs. You may end up seeing 6-8 ribbon clumps in the shallows and there will always be ones in deeper water that you won't see. Since you have predators you might just leave all the ribbons in place and see what your first crop of young YP do on their own in terms of achieving a balance.

Question 3. GSH - not sure I can help. I put the GSH in first before the YP or any predators. Any supplemental forage sounds like a good idea and usually GSH are fairly easy to source wholesale and stock on a budget. Larger GSH will eat smaller fry of YP and I assume RES. But I can't say how that is balanced out by hungry SMB keeping the GSH in check. Shorty on this forum has a pond with an ongoing balance between SMB, RES and GSH. He can speak to how the natural balance plays out.

Question 4. I think with your predators you won't have to cull YP at all. You have the luxury of being able to feed them with pellets and they will hopefully have RES babies, their own YP babies and FHM to eat as well. Adding crayfish and/or some type of shiner will give them plenty to choose from.

I'd be curious if you can trap or net young RES? Are they pulling off spawns in any number?

Finally, you are lucky to have naturally occuring spotfins in bodies of water all around you or can source them from fish farms in OH. They have several advantages over GSH and they readily take to pellets with gusto. They school up and travel in the shallows all over the pond and are fun to observe. I would look into them as a supplemental forage fish.

Top
#514865 - 12/12/19 02:57 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8279
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: bcraley
March 2018 - Pond dug - 1/3 acre - Currently very clear water with Chara covering 15% of bottom.

May 2018 - Stocked 4# FHM

Oct 2018 - Stocked 50 2-4" RES / 24 GAM

April 2019 - Stocked 25 RES 2-4" / 100 YP 4-5" / 5# FHM

May 2019 - Stocked 25 3-4" SMB

Will be adding aeration in March or as soon as ice is out this spring.

Lost 6 SMB due to erosion matting that hung into the pond. Have since removed all netting that hangs into full pool of pond. Terrible mistake on my part!

Fished the pond in October for the first time and caught SMB that measured 9.5" and very plump. Also caught YP ranging from 8-9" also plump. No sign of the RES.

I still have FHM swimming but schools are much smaller than in spring.

Hand fed over the summer and fall. YP take pellets well.

Question:

1. Should I consider stocking 10 or 15 SMB this spring to replace the ones I lost in the netting and to give me another year class?

2. Will my YP spawn this spring?

3. Should I add GS this spring as a supplemental forage for my SMB?

In 2020 will it be time for me to start culling YP? Is there study/suggestions that shows best slot limits for YP / SMB / RES pond?


Good fishery after my own heart. Really good from Canyon response above, I can add a few things and underscore others.

Answers to your questions depend on your goals. I always establish my client list of goals before recommending a stocking and management strategy - but lacking those here's my initial take on your current situation.

Density of SMB is already beyond what I would recommend a client - I would not stock more. SMB will reproduce sometimes even without rock substrate - I'd wait a season or two before supplemental SMB stocking. I suspect if anything you'll be culling SMB due to the BOW size and stress they place on your forage base in the coming seasons.

Yes YP will spawn this Spring - YOY will help feed your SMB - allow them to spawn.

You will likely need some supplemental forage - the pellets are good for the YP and relieve some pressure off forage base, but unless your SMB are trained they're entirely dependent on invertebrates, FHM which won't last long, and RES and YP offspring. You want to offer more on the buffet line - GSH are a possibility but they do directly compete with YP in my repeated experience and YP recruitment suffers and they can be forced out of pellet feeding area by schooling GSH. Also adult GSH may exceed gape capability of your predators and will tie up biomass and consume pellets once they reach 7-8". Considering the size of your BOW exceeding carrying capacity is a genuine concern. GSH are inexpensive and easy to source, however.

Ideally another minnow species such as Bluntnose or another shiner species such as Spotfin are ideal forage options for a fishery this size. Only negative here is availability - for most of us these species are very difficult and expensive to source. However, Bill Cody sources these two species and lives in OH.

Crayfish are an option, but I've had several experiences in smaller BOWs where their populations aren't effectively managed by YP/SMB and they can denude a pond of vegetation and cause turbidity issues. I'm not saying it can't be balanced, but speak from personal experience on several occasions of potential crayfish negative impact on a fishery. I'd wait until your SMB are 12"+ before a test stocking of 50 adult Papershells.

Bottom line I'd leave your SMB population static, allow your YP to reproduce fully in order to provide SMB forage this season, and I'd do my best to source SFS and BNM in Ohio. If you cannot source these you can defer to GSH but be mindful of the potential negative influence of their presence. If you want to harvest some YP select 9-10" males - check urogenital opening to verify gender - males have round pores, females a crescent shaped opening. You'll become an expert in no time on this - I advise to leave your females alone.

Lastly, consider aeration especially if pellet feeding [excess nutrient loads and if you're pushing carrying capacity in coming seasons. You can likely set up a system for a 1/3 AC BOW for around $1k.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





Top
#514866 - 12/12/19 03:58 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: canyoncreek]
bcraley Offline


Registered: 06/18/18
Posts: 27
Loc: Ohio
I would have had a BG / LMB pond had it not been for Theo and this forum. Having grownup on the Susquehanna River in PA and fishing SMB during my childhood, I didn't hesitate when Theo told me about the SMB / RES / YP stocking success that he had.

To answer your questions:

I do not have crayfish. But I would like to have them. So far just haven't found a source for them. If anyone knows of a source near me, I'd be happy to add them and/or PK shrimp.

I believe I had GAMs this spring prior to stocking SMB / YP. But I haven't trapped fish this summer/fall. I will begin trapping this spring to see how things look.

I hope to have SMB recruitment!! I did add beds last fall based on Theo's advice, but the one I could see when my water dropped this summer was covered in sediment, I should have elevated them. Will probably just leave them alone and see if I can trap some YOY SMB this summer.If not... I can add more SMB in the fall.

Can you tell me where to source Spotfin Shad near me? I've sourced everything so far from Jones and I believe they only sell GSH. I was worried about GSH getting to large for SMB gape and then just being another mouth eating forage.

Top
#514867 - 12/12/19 04:07 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: teehjaeh57]
bcraley Offline


Registered: 06/18/18
Posts: 27
Loc: Ohio
My goals are quite simple. The pond is in my backyard for recreation of the whole family. While I love to catch big fish, my daughter,her friends and my dogs want to swim. My wife just wants it to look pretty while sitting on the dock w/ a cocktail.

So for now, a fun fishing pond that is clean enough to swim in with minimal vegetation / algae and clean healthy water is what I'm after.

I suspect... 10 years from now, that goal might change to lets see how big I can grow these SMB. But for now... I'm good with throwing a fly and having some average SMB smack it.

I'm putting a PondLyfe 2 system in this spring. I already ran the 350' for conduit and wire from the barn this fall.

Top
#514872 - 12/12/19 05:34 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2153
Loc: West Michigan
TJ says it much better than I and he has the experience first hand to back it up. Thanks TJ!

Crayfish, there is a recent thread of someone who ordered them and had no issues. I don't know what type they were. The preferred type is softshell. But as TJ said, especially if you have rocky structure or dense weeds to hide them, they populate more than rabbits and then take out your vegetation and stir up the water, especially in a smaller pond. You would be best to wait till the SMB are big and aggressive.

Gams, let us know, anyone else on the forum know if gams live under the ice in OH (Indiana, MI, etc?)

Spotfin are a type of shiner. Bill Cody has two sources he knows of if you are up for a road trip. I know of no one who ships them but it is a mystery to me as to why since they are super hardy, readily take pellet feeding and reproduce readily in ponds with crevice structure for spawning surfaces. I'm told they are native in OH ponds and creeks so that might be your easiest source but I have no personal experience with that.

Your worries about GSH are correct and TJ brings up several other worries that might make it wise to never start down that road. I'm in year 5 of my GSH. I see less and less as I think the older females are probably sterile, but my middle size GSH do compete with the YP for pellets. I'm sure my GSH are cleaning up on YP babies and any potential RES babies. I don't mind so much on the population control for YP as I have a smaller pond than you and also stocked 100 YP. However I have harvested about 30 eating size and the last few years since I purposely did not put in any predators yet I have removed the majority of egg strands that I could get to without wading.

I have no predators for the larger GSH but hopefully that will change next summer. If I could have started with FHM and Spotfin shiners I would have so if you do FHM and some shiner species captured or purchased locally you will have a very nice pond set up.

I do believe Shorty is targeting his larger GSH through angling so his SMB must not readily keep up with eating the larger GSH.

Top
#514874 - 12/12/19 06:50 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: canyoncreek]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4400
Loc: Raymond, NE
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
I do believe Shorty is targeting his larger GSH through angling so his SMB must not readily keep up with eating the larger GSH.


I was, the spray related fish kill I had back in May wiped out all of my larger GSH over 6", all of my large RES, and almost all of my SMB. Last fall I removed 125 GSH over 6", this spring I removed a a similar number, then the fish kill took another 156 GSH. That was roughly 375 large GSH in a 1/4 acre pond, I'm pretty sure that's the reason I haven't seen any SMB recruitment over the last 4-5 years.
_________________________


Top
#514878 - 12/12/19 09:31 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8279
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: bcraley
I would have had a BG / LMB pond had it not been for Theo and this forum. Having grownup on the Susquehanna River in PA and fishing SMB during my childhood, I didn't hesitate when Theo told me about the SMB / RES / YP stocking success that he had.

To answer your questions:

I do not have crayfish. But I would like to have them. So far just haven't found a source for them. If anyone knows of a source near me, I'd be happy to add them and/or PK shrimp.

I believe I had GAMs this spring prior to stocking SMB / YP. But I haven't trapped fish this summer/fall. I will begin trapping this spring to see how things look.

I hope to have SMB recruitment!! I did add beds last fall based on Theo's advice, but the one I could see when my water dropped this summer was covered in sediment, I should have elevated them. Will probably just leave them alone and see if I can trap some YOY SMB this summer.If not... I can add more SMB in the fall.

Can you tell me where to source Spotfin Shad near me? I've sourced everything so far from Jones and I believe they only sell GSH. I was worried about GSH getting to large for SMB gape and then just being another mouth eating forage.


Start researching Bill Cody posts on google on the topic of these fish - he's related his sources a few times. Seems Ohio is the only place where bait stores sell BNM and SFS.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=400042
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





Top
#514881 - 12/12/19 11:24 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: teehjaeh57]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24173
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
If the OP stocks GSH, will they become a problem? That depends.

1) A 19" SMB has a gape of 2 1/2" x 2 1/4", that's a pretty big GSH that it can slurp down.
2) Does the OP have the correct spawning substrate for GSH to thrive in the pond? If GSH don't have enough spawning substrate to successfully reproduce in large quantities they most likely will not establish themselves in the pond. Remember, not only will the SMB be preying on the GSH, so will the YP and RES. I have caught YP on 4" jerk baits when fishing for bass.......

I know of a few ponds that were stocked with SMB, RES, YP, FHM, Papershell Crayfish and GSH. Due to not having the proper spawning substrate for both the GSH and FHM, both are virtually non-existent in the ponds now. There is little to no spawning substrate for the YP, so their numbers are very low as well. The SMB in the pond are stunted, a 15" SMB will be lucky to weigh 1#.

Re: Crayfish. Do NOT buy softshell crayfish without knowing what species they are. All species are called "softshell" after they molt, even Rusty Crayfish.

The OP's pond is 1/3 ac. If the GSH get too prolific, a few HSB might be stocked to help control them if he isn't in the Lake Erie watershed.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#514888 - 12/13/19 07:31 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: esshup]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4580
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Why would an OP (office professional) stock your pond? smile


Edited by RAH (12/13/19 07:33 AM)

Top
#514893 - 12/13/19 10:13 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: esshup]
bcraley Offline


Registered: 06/18/18
Posts: 27
Loc: Ohio
I am not in the Lake Erie watershed, I'm in central Ohio.

My understanding of GSH spawning substrate is grasses... correct?

While I do not have grass I do have good size patches of Chara, is this a supportive substrate for GSH?

I will say that my FHM have reproduced like rabbits... clouds of FHM the summer they were in the pond without predators. So far they are still going strong, but it's obvious that their numbers are fewer now that predators have been introduced. I suspect that the Chara beds may be assisting in continued FHM recruitment?

Top
#514894 - 12/13/19 10:34 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
Acoursey Offline


Registered: 10/26/17
Posts: 78
Loc: West Lafayette, IN
Originally Posted By: bcraley
I am not in the Lake Erie watershed, I'm in central Ohio.

My understanding of GSH spawning substrate is grasses... correct?

While I do not have grass I do have good size patches of Chara, is this a supportive substrate for GSH?

I will say that my FHM have reproduced like rabbits... clouds of FHM the summer they were in the pond without predators. So far they are still going strong, but it's obvious that their numbers are fewer now that predators have been introduced. I suspect that the Chara beds may be assisting in continued FHM recruitment?



Chara will serve as spawning substrate for GSH, and can serve as good cover for fry of FHM and GSH.

Top
#514895 - 12/13/19 10:59 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
Freg Offline


Registered: 01/22/19
Posts: 67
Loc: TN
I can't imagine that the GSHs would be a problem in your pond if your SM and YP are already 9"+. Some of the other species that others have mentioned may be better options, but I would highly doubt you'd get an excess of 6"+ GSH when your predators are already stocked JMHO.

Top
#515095 - 12/19/19 06:03 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: Freg]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8279
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: Freg
I can't imagine that the GSHs would be a problem in your pond if your SM and YP are already 9"+. Some of the other species that others have mentioned may be better options, but I would highly doubt you'd get an excess of 6"+ GSH when your predators are already stocked JMHO.


GSH can absolutely achieve adult sizes in the presence of these apex predators, hence the advice provided by fishery management professionals. This advise isn't provided on a hunch, it's based on management of dozens of fisheries with these species present - some also with HSB and WE, and GSH still routinely achieve adult size - hence the direction based on experience.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





Top
#515111 - 12/20/19 12:32 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: teehjaeh57]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 812
Loc: NW Kansas
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Originally Posted By: Freg
I can't imagine that the GSHs would be a problem in your pond if your SM and YP are already 9"+. Some of the other species that others have mentioned may be better options, but I would highly doubt you'd get an excess of 6"+ GSH when your predators are already stocked JMHO.


GSH can absolutely achieve adult sizes in the presence of these apex predators, hence the advice provided by fishery management professionals. This advise isn't provided on a hunch, it's based on management of dozens of fisheries with these species present - some also with HSB and WE, and GSH still routinely achieve adult size - hence the direction based on experience.


They done exactly this in my pond with SMB, YP, RES and a few Saugeye.
My GSH this fall were 5.5-7".
_________________________
I Subscribe!

Top
#515115 - 12/20/19 06:26 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4580
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I am confused. Are GSH considered a problem species in a SMB, YP, RES pond? My pond also has lake chubsuckers in addition to the 4 other species.

Top
#515122 - 12/20/19 08:12 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: RAH]
Acoursey Offline


Registered: 10/26/17
Posts: 78
Loc: West Lafayette, IN
Originally Posted By: RAH
I am confused. Are GSH considered a problem species in a SMB, YP, RES pond? My pond also has lake chubsuckers in addition to the 4 other species.


Shiners are a predator of fry and eggs. This can be both beneficial or harmful depending on your management goal. A pond I manage in SE IA is stocked with SMB, WE, YP, and shiners. I don't expect any reproduction from the walleye or SMB but the growth rates have been outstanding and I plan to ladder stock every 2-3 years. The predators are overstocked and shiners are fed a starter diet. The range in size from fry to almost 9". I catch some big shiners on small inline spinners, crappie jigs, and ice fishing lures.


Edited by Acoursey (12/20/19 09:39 AM)

Top
#515130 - 12/20/19 09:29 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4580
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
My SMB and YP have spawned and multiple sizes are doing well. Stocker SMB are quite fat based on the few caught last fall by my neighbor. I caught a large GSH on a hard-bait lure a couple years back when last I fished that pond. If we get good ice, perhaps my neighbor will try and catch some YP through the ice?

Top
#515137 - 12/20/19 11:36 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
bcraley Offline


Registered: 06/18/18
Posts: 27
Loc: Ohio
Thanks everyone for the conversation. It's always educational. Based on this info I'm not going to stock GSH. I'm going to do my best to source SFS and/or BNM. Worst case I'll try to harvest some from wild near my house.

When harvesting forage from wild, are their concerns and/or best practices to ensure I'm not introducing 'things' into my pond from wild that I wouldn't want in there?

Since I'm lazy... I'm going to try to find a source rather than wild harvest... but...

Top
#515142 - 12/20/19 12:48 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24173
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
SMB reproduction in a pond can be iffy if correct spawning habitat isn't present. In fact ANY fish reproduction in the pond can be iffy if the correct (for the species) spawning habitat isn't present.

One client has a SMB/YP/RES/GSH pond. He had some pea gravel put in places on the bottom. Both the SMB and RES use it for reproduction. There are no underwater weeds, and due to water fluctuations, no shoreline grasses that are under water. Both YP and GSH reproduction is minimal or non-existent. Without concentrated harvesting of the SMB, they are stunted. This pond owner does not feed his fish, and fish growth is slow, due to the lack of habitat for the fish growth is behind natural lakes in the area. Pond is 8 years old. An electro shock survey 2 years ago showed no YP or GSH recruitment.

Another client has a 4 acre pond, with minimal area for SMB reproduction. There are SMB/YP/RES/HBG and GSH in the pond. There is habitat for GSH reproduction. Minimal habitat for reproduction of SMB/YP/HBG. He feeds Optimal Bass/Bluegill food. Pond is 4 years old. GHS population is good. He catches adults thru the ice, and has clouds of GSH YOY in late Spring/early summer. By the fall, very few smaller GSH are seen. He has reproduction of the YP, RES and HBG, but low numbers. This upcoming year will be year 3 that the SMB are in the pond, they were stocked as fingerlings in the Spring of 2018 a year after the other species were in the pond. They are 3# this year and RW is in the 120% range. This pond is 4 years old.

Both of the ponds that I used for an example had the same number of SMB stocked per surface acre, 1 year after initial stocking of other fish species. The differences in the ponds are as follows:

1) Pond #1 was stocked at 50% stocking rate of all species except SMB, which were stocked a year later at 50/surface acre.
2) Pond #2 was stocked at the recommended stocking rate for all species and stocked a year later with SMB at 50/surface acre also.
3) Pond #1 has virtually no cover for fish habitat and virtually no habitat for GSH reproduction. It DOES have limited habitat (5 areas in the 1 ac pond that are approximately 10 sq. ft per area of pea gravel) for SMB and RES reproduction.
4) Pond #2 had large expanses of habitat for YP and GSH reproduction, minimal areas of reproduction for SMB, RES and HBG.

Another thing to keep in mind about stocking forage fish for predators is that the forage fish should be 1/3 to 1/4 the length of the predators (providing that the gape of the predators is sufficient for that length forage fish) for the predators to grow at a good rate. If the forage fish are small, then the predators have to expend more energy per forage fish captured and that energy expenditure might equal the caloric intake so the fish won't grow.

That's the reason behind stocking FHM in a new pond, letting them reproduce and then stocking predators in addition to the projected prey species. You are providing the correct sized forage fish for the smaller apex predator fish to grow quickly.

Keep in mind the 10# correct sized forage fish consumed per 1# weight gain per predator fish. So if the main reason for stocking a certain species of fish is for forage, keep in mind the size of the predatory fish you want to feed those forage fish to.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#515146 - 12/20/19 01:44 PM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4580
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Without a heads-up on SMB spawning structure from knowledgeable folks on this forum, I would not have built them before the pond filled, or even knew that SMB (or YP) could be successful in smallish warm ponds. Another big thank you!

Top
#515163 - 12/21/19 02:41 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: RAH]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24173
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Originally Posted By: RAH
Without a heads-up on SMB spawning structure from knowledgeable folks on this forum, I would not have built them before the pond filled, or even knew that SMB (or YP) could be successful in smallish warm ponds. Another big thank you!


Rah, I put a few in some clients ponds this late Spring that had SMB. They were in use by SMB when spawning time came around. Every one of them!!
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#515166 - 12/21/19 05:30 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: esshup]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4580
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Never actually saw the SMB spawning sites get used, but I have all sizes now, so that suggests they are being used.


Edited by RAH (12/21/19 06:25 AM)

Top
#515235 - 12/24/19 08:08 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 20043
Loc: Miss.
Try this link for SMB spawning beds.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92626#Post92626

Cody Notes:
See this link to an edited Pond Boss magazine article in Bass Resource.com about SMB spawning and nest building by Bill Cody. The article with all pictures is available as PBoss mag back issue Jul-Aug 2009.
https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smallmouth-spawning.html

Here is another thread about SMB spawning nests, however many of the photos from Photobucket do not show. It is sad they did this to users.
Thread from 2008
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=133541&page=1



Ideal spawning nests for smallmouth bass are basically those shown in the ewest-TJ pictures in the link above. Structure as coarse cover is beneficial near, close to or beside the nest. Some early nest design found it helpful to have a slab wood log on top of the nest. TJ should be writing a PBoss article about his experiences with successful spawning of smallmouth bass.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/27/19 01:10 PM)
_________________________















Top
#515239 - 12/24/19 10:53 AM Re: SMB / YP / RES - Now what? [Re: bcraley]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2153
Loc: West Michigan
ewest,
Any way your pictures can be restored in the first link? (the one that references pondboss 92626 in your post above) Near the bottom some photobucket pictures are missing and they seem to be important parts of the info on that page!

BCody Note - Ideally we should try to get all those that contributed to the older defunct SMB posts / pictures to repost and include some updates of what they have learned since the early days with smallies. These people should have the orgiginal pics available with maybe some new pics. By all means the new pondmeisters with smallies are more than welcome and encouraged to contribute which would make our practical pond information here about smallmouth bass some of the best available.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/25/19 08:53 AM)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Today's Birthdays
Bluegillerkiller, IronMike, NHooper, Pond Guppy
Recent Posts
Finally pulled the trigger!
by 5444
42 minutes 58 seconds ago
Soul Test Results Are In, and The Pond Is Filling
by Theo Gallus
Today at 11:06 AM
How long does it last (treatment) ?
by TGW1
Today at 11:05 AM
Land Conservation Perspective
by RAH
Today at 09:04 AM
Fish Feeder Size & Feeder Specific Locations?
by esshup
Today at 01:32 AM
Crappie in my Pond - how to manage?
by esshup
Today at 01:23 AM
New Iowa Pond
by esshup
Today at 01:18 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by ShortCut
Yesterday at 11:29 PM
First Time Feeding Program in a New Pond
by RJE64
Yesterday at 09:20 PM
Types of Coniferous Trees Around Ponds
by ted_1209
Yesterday at 07:34 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Getting photos on this forum is a PITA!
Retreat
I Subscribe Permanent Link
Need Plants Identified - Texas Pond - Lily Pad ...
Personal Record BGxRES
Harry's Pond

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide