Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
tdog, ProfessorH, Seanboy, ZachET, dlmpsy
16317 Registered Users
Forum Stats
16318 Members
36 Forums
37298 Topics
508449 Posts

Max Online: 3583 @ 01/15/20 02:21 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24188
ewest 20048
Cecil Baird1 20043
Dave Davidson1 14175
Bill Cody 13106
Who's Online
9 registered (anthropic, Theo Gallus, snrub, Sunil, wbuffetjr, Kris B, RAH, RStringer, Dave Davidson1), 318 Guests and 557 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#514685 - 12/06/19 10:01 AM New builder and ponds
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Hi,

I am new to pond building (although I have seen quite a few being built) and am going to build a series of ponds (around 10) on our farm.

I have read "Just add Water" and have done a lot of research. My primary purposes are for retriever training (like John and Martha Russell in Mike's book), fishing and livestock.

My first build is a small sacrificial pond for learning purposes.

It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.

My concern on this pond is water doesn't seem to flow out of the overflow very well. It is overflowing at the emergency spillway and the overflow pipe. The pipe is small (3") but it doesn't come out of the top fast enough. If I open the drain valve, it rolls out great. Any suggestions?

Top
#514687 - 12/06/19 10:05 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RAH Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4582
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Is the pipe strait (no high spots for air lock)? Does it slope downhill hard or is it level? How much freeboard between top of drain inlet and bottom of emergency spillway?

Top
#514688 - 12/06/19 10:08 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Straight up. It has a slope down hill. I think around 5-8 feet.

Top
#514690 - 12/06/19 10:19 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
I am trying to upload some photos. When I try, it takes me to a donate page. Do I have to donate money to upload pictures?

Top
#514693 - 12/06/19 01:50 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RStringer Online   content


Registered: 06/06/18
Posts: 557
Loc: Parsons KS
Appreciated yes of course but the answer would be nope. Every pages has the donate button in the top right corner.
_________________________
The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag.

Top
#514720 - 12/07/19 05:32 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: RAH]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: RAH
Is the pipe strait (no high spots for air lock)? Does it slope downhill hard or is it level? How much freeboard between top of drain inlet and bottom of emergency spillway?


Looking for clarification relative to your questions:

1. Should the pipe be straight?
2. Should it be level or slope? If it needs slope, how much per foot?
3. How much freeboard should it have?

Top
#514722 - 12/07/19 07:49 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 146
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Jeffrey,
When the pond is at full pool and water is ONLY coming out of the 3” pipe how much higher does the water in the pond need to come up (how many inches) until it goes over the emergency spillway?
Heppy


Edited by Heppy (12/07/19 08:01 PM)

Top
#514723 - 12/08/19 05:51 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RAH Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4582
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Pipe should be strait and the more sloped it is (greater the drop), the more water it will carry when full of water. The amount of freeboard that is needed depends on the watershed, rainfall amounts, pond size, pipe size, drop on pipe, pipe material, and length. There are formulas to size and design pond drains, dam height, and emergency spillways. I just over-engineer mine.

High spots in a drain pipe can cause an air lock. A 3" pipe is very small for most ponds. I have 4" drains on a few of my wetlands but will never go less than 6" on any new ones after having turtles plug the 4" ones several times. Even had a turtle plug a 6" drain. I now have guards on them all.

Top
#514730 - 12/08/19 08:33 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Heppy]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Heppy
Jeffrey,
When the pond is at full pool and water is ONLY coming out of the 3” pipe how much higher does the water in the pond need to come up (how many inches) until it goes over the emergency spillway?
Heppy


Right now it is about 4 inches.

Top
#514731 - 12/08/19 08:45 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
RAH: Thanks for the clarification. At first the pond was tiny. I was basically trying to calculate the water flow from the spring. During a rain the spring picked up extra flow from road runoff and the 3" wasn't adequate.

I made the pond bigger (it is around 3-4K sq. ft.) because the water flow was good. I plan on going with a 6 inch pipe.

When you talk about high spots in the drain pipe, are you referring to the horizontal portion in the dike?

Top
#514733 - 12/08/19 09:32 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Delete

Top
#514734 - 12/08/19 09:39 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Delete

Top
#514736 - 12/08/19 10:02 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RAH Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4582
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If air can collect in a portion of the pipe then an air lock can form. I learned this the hard way in a small diameter gravity drain.

Only 4" of freeboard means the drain may never fully fill due to sucking air from the surface of the water. An anti-vortex device, like a hood, might help a little bit, but the pipe probably needs to be set lower.


Edited by RAH (12/08/19 10:05 AM)

Top
#514743 - 12/08/19 06:51 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
RAH,

I'm struggling to understand why freeboard matters in my case. I can't see how it can suck air with a bottom draw.

Top
#514748 - 12/08/19 09:41 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 146
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Jeffrey,
Clicking on your links I only see the Google account sign in screen. A picture would help (“It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.”) to explain this to those reading your thread. The way I understand it is that your 3” overflow pipe runs through the bottom of the dam inside the pond and outside the back of the dam. From this point there is an upside down 90 degree T with the drain on the horizontal side of T furthest from the dam and a piece of 3” pipe sticking straight up in the air on the upside down vertical T on the backside of the dam. The height of the 3” pipe is 4 inches shy of being level with your emergency spillway when the pond is full. If this is correct what is the source of water for the pond (runoff, spring or stream fed). Do you know the size of your watershed or gallons per minute if it is spring or stream fed?
Heppy

Top
#514753 - 12/09/19 06:23 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
nehunter Offline


Registered: 07/20/15
Posts: 128
Loc: SE, NE
I am no expert but I would think your head pressure in your drain pipe would be equal to the water depth. When your water goes up you have only 6 inches of head pressure, not very much.
You would need to replace with a syphon system if you have enough slope on the back side of your dam. Then a 3 inch pipe would pull a lot more water out.
_________________________
61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp

Top
#514754 - 12/09/19 06:35 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RAH Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4582
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Did not realize it is a bottom draw. The water pressure and flow rate are still dependent on the water level above the drain height. Only 4" of freeboard will produce slow flow. Put a small hole in the bottom of a bucket and watch the flow rate out of that hole as you fill the same bucket. The same is true if you start a siphon out of a bucket. As the water level goes down in the bucket, the speed of the water coming through the siphon decreases. If the vertical pipe hold immobile water on the downside of the dam during dry spells, what keeps it from freezing during cold weather? Or are your minimum temps too high?


Edited by RAH (12/09/19 06:59 AM)

Top
#514755 - 12/09/19 07:48 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Heppy]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Heppy
Jeffrey,
Clicking on your links I only see the Google account sign in screen. A picture would help (“It has a bottom draw with an up pipe on the back side of the dike even with the water line. It also has a drain valve.”) to explain this to those reading your thread. The way I understand it is that your 3” overflow pipe runs through the bottom of the dam inside the pond and outside the back of the dam. From this point there is an upside down 90 degree T with the drain on the horizontal side of T furthest from the dam and a piece of 3” pipe sticking straight up in the air on the upside down vertical T on the backside of the dam. The height of the 3” pipe is 4 inches shy of being level with your emergency spillway when the pond is full. If this is correct what is the source of water for the pond (runoff, spring or stream fed). Do you know the size of your watershed or gallons per minute if it is spring or stream fed?
Heppy


I can't figure the picture thing out.

Top
#514757 - 12/09/19 08:17 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
RAH Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4582
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
My 2 kids are IT professionals and suggested Imgur (free online photo storage). This has worked perfectly for me. The flying dog literally broke her neck and is in a brace for 8-12 weeks. Her muscularity is what saved her.


Top
#514758 - 12/09/19 08:53 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 1102
Loc: in the mountains
I use Imgur as well. Pretty simple
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

Top
#514760 - 12/09/19 09:12 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA

Top
#514762 - 12/09/19 10:21 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: nehunter]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: nehunter
I am no expert but I would think your head pressure in your drain pipe would be equal to the water depth. When your water goes up you have only 6 inches of head pressure, not very much.
You would need to replace with a syphon system if you have enough slope on the back side of your dam. Then a 3 inch pipe would pull a lot more water out.


I love the siphon system, but it would get in the way of my dogs entering the water.

Top
#514763 - 12/09/19 10:37 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 146
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Yes I can see your pictures. What is your source of water and where in VA are you located? I’m no expert but RAH is asking you a great question about temperature. The pipe outside the dam is likely to get an ice plug and break if the water freezes and expands from what I understand.
Heppy


Edited by Heppy (12/09/19 11:09 AM)

Top
#514766 - 12/09/19 11:39 AM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
I'm in SW VA in the Blacksburg area. The water source is a spring. It runs about 10-15gpm (I'm guessing here based on a garden hose being about 6gpm) year round without rain. I can tell you the 3 inch over flow pipe works about at capacity when it isn't raining. When it rains hard I get at least double the flow. I am worried about freezing as well. I received advice not to worry about it but am hesitant.

Top
#514768 - 12/09/19 12:22 PM Re: New builder and ponds [Re: Jeffrey Bandel]
Jeffrey Bandel Offline


Registered: 06/08/19
Posts: 21
Loc: VA
DC70 posted something real interesting for a northern climate siphon system that is buried. It seems like it would meet my needs. I don't quite understand it though. Has anyone else built something like that?

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Today's Birthdays
Frank Holt, twobears
Recent Posts
adding forage fish in 2020
by anthropic
2 seconds ago
River Monsters
by anthropic
27 minutes 59 seconds ago
Thoughts on a new 2.7 acre pond stocking
by RAH
Today at 06:03 AM
Pond Porn
by corgi
Today at 01:06 AM
New Member in Iowa
by ProfessorH
Yesterday at 09:47 PM
Soil-Floc, it continues to be an amazing product!!
by RStringer
Yesterday at 09:28 PM
8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s
by Bill Cody
Yesterday at 05:16 PM
Pellet size & growth connection?
by TGW1
Yesterday at 09:16 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by ShortCut
Yesterday at 12:09 AM
Land Conservation Perspective
by esshup
01/25/20 10:56 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Getting photos on this forum is a PITA!
Retreat
I Subscribe Permanent Link
Need Plants Identified - Texas Pond - Lily Pad ...
Personal Record BGxRES
Harry's Pond

© 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide