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#513779 - 11/07/19 06:36 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
How does one determine if there are too many does? Our does look to be very healthy and fat for the most part. I have been involved in another forum for years. Texas bow hunters is a good place to start for information. There are a few other places to look when it comes to deer management. Growing deer tv is another place where there is some good info. I have yet to come to an answer when it comes to how many deer is too many? I found out same as here "it depends" The state biologist are involved in the picture. They help to determine how many deer can be taken per county. My best guess is the overall harvest of deer per county guides me to believe what our deer population is in each county. Every county in Texas has different numbers when it comes to harvest. In my county it's two bucks and two does. Bucks have to be outside the ears before you can harvest. In Louisiana, Caddo Parish which is net to me, the harvest numbers are larger when it comes to does. Last time I looked it was 6 does can be taken. And for the most part the bucks are what I call basket bucks. This is most likely due to food and age and not genetics


Pat I see no participation in breeding during Oct here.


Edited by TGW1 (11/07/19 06:38 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#513793 - 11/07/19 12:08 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: TGW1]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2864
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Tracy
When you see 15-20 does to one buck itís too many does. Our first breeding cycle is usually over by the 1st week in November. The second one is usually around thanksgiving weekend then the next one Christmas time

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#513798 - 11/07/19 12:55 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
In my neck of the woods, we can take 1 buck a year and doe number depends on county (4-5 in my county depending on how you harvest your buck - actually unnecessarily complicated). I try to maximize my doe harvest to manage for trophy bucks and reduce the deer density to keep the herd healthy, especially with the types of diseases that seem to be spreading. We have a healthy large herd which I credit with all our development of high quality habitat (food, water, and cover).

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#513807 - 11/07/19 01:57 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: TGW1]
Chris Steelman Offline

Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1858
Loc: Red River County,Tx
Originally Posted By: TGW1
How does one determine if there are too many does? Our does look to be very healthy and fat for the most part. I have been involved in another forum for years. Texas bow hunters is a good place to start for information. There are a few other places to look when it comes to deer management. Growing deer tv is another place where there is some good info. I have yet to come to an answer when it comes to how many deer is too many? I found out same as here "it depends" The state biologist are involved in the picture. They help to determine how many deer can be taken per county. My best guess is the overall harvest of deer per county guides me to believe what our deer population is in each county. Every county in Texas has different numbers when it comes to harvest. In my county it's two bucks and two does. Bucks have to be outside the ears before you can harvest. In Louisiana, Caddo Parish which is net to me, the harvest numbers are larger when it comes to does. Last time I looked it was 6 does can be taken. And for the most part the bucks are what I call basket bucks. This is most likely due to food and age and not genetics.


Tracy,

See how their food is doing and then you can determine if you have to harvest does. If every plant is nipped off and they are eating undesirable food you have to many does. If other the preferred food is eaten you don't have to many. I've started watching Growing Deer TV in the last year and will probably have Grant do a management and hunting plan for me this winter. Going to open up our woods that have virtually no food except for the trails.

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#513811 - 11/07/19 02:35 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RAH]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2864
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Originally Posted By: RAH
In my neck of the woods, we can take 1 buck a year and doe number depends on county (4-5 in my county depending on how you harvest your buck - actually unnecessarily complicated). I try to maximize my doe harvest to manage for trophy bucks and reduce the deer density to keep the herd healthy, especially with the types of diseases that seem to be spreading. We have a healthy large herd which I credit with all our development of high quality habitat (food, water, and cover).


In our area you can take two bucks per hunter, so if you have 5 acres and 10 hunters thatís 20 bucks off a small area..... thatís the problem here too many hunters to the property size.

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#513815 - 11/07/19 03:26 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
RStringer Offline


Registered: 06/06/18
Posts: 455
Loc: Parsons KS
Send some of them hunters up here to Kansas. I have packs of 20+ 400 yards from my backdoor. I cant let my kids leave the house without telling them to watch out for deer. Thick as thieves around here.
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#513818 - 11/07/19 03:52 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: Pat Williamson]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
We have overhunted adjoining properties. Deer are quickly driven to our place.

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#513843 - 11/08/19 09:00 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I don't believe we have too many does at my place. The population seems to remain around the same numbers each year. And we keep bucks around to. The bucks that stick around early on are usually younger bucks in the one to 3 yr range. With about 15 to 20 older (3yrs+) bucks that show up throughout the rutting season or Oct through February. We also have a large area if we consider our surrounding neighbors properties and the 9,000 acre NWR that receives little pressure that is across the rd from us.
All of us enjoy seeing the deer year round. The neighbors have reported that the deer look healthier since we started the year round food plots six yrs ago. The does are really healthy looking right now. As far as the food plots we have planted many different plants over the years but today we have narrowed it down to what seems to work best for us and what the deer prefer. Here is a list of what we now plant. Elbon Rye, winter wheat, clover both red and white, sun hemp, iron clay peas and forage soybeans. Our clovers will be there year round. They are in the clover wheat and rye right now and were in the sun hemp till this past week. We also have a lot of white oak acorns right now along with red oaks also. The acorns are being hit pretty hard right now. I have to say I looked hard for the right place to buy with the plan of making it a sporting property. And I am not done with the property.


Edited by TGW1 (11/08/19 09:03 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#513847 - 11/08/19 09:47 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
gehajake Offline


Registered: 12/31/18
Posts: 129
Loc: Central MO
I am over populated with deer, bucks and does, I have about the same amount of bucks and does, a few nice mature bucks but mostly dozens of scrubs that need eliminated from gene pool, but I can only harvest two per yr, one by gun and one with bow and arrow, I can take about 4 or 5 does if I wanted to, my problem is I cant find any hunters that want to take the scrubs and does, everybody just wants to let them walk and wait till the big one comes by, thus eliminating the good bloodlines and let the scrubs breed.
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#513849 - 11/08/19 09:58 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
From all of my research over the years I suspect the scrubs as you call them are more about lack of food over bad genetics. Mississippi did a study because of people hollering about bad genetics in parts of the state. So they took samples from all over the state and placed them in a high fence area where they feed the deer and by the 3rd generation the deer had all improved in size and health. It's about the food and most likely not the genetics.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#513852 - 11/08/19 10:17 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: TGW1]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1548
Loc: Central Kansas
[quote=TGW1 Mississippi did a study because of people hollering about bad genetics in parts of the state. So they took samples from all over the state and placed them in a high fence area where they feed the deer and by the 3rd generation the deer had all improved in size and health. It's about the food and most likely not the genetics. [/quote]

Sounds similar to pond situations.

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#513855 - 11/08/19 10:47 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
"The heritability estimate for antler weight shown in Table 1 suggests that 75 percent of the variability in antler weights (mass) may be attributed to heredity."

https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/game_management/deer/antlers_inherited/

That is why selective harvesting works. Good habitat allows good genetics to be maximized.


Edited by RAH (11/08/19 10:48 AM)

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#513856 - 11/08/19 11:01 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I agree that genetics do come into play. That is proven by deer farming today. High fence genetics has been a booming business across Texas for the past 20+ yrs. But without the food the genetics mean little. Like jludwig mentioned about our ponds. We can have the best genetics in the pond but without the food they will not grow to be trophy's.
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#513862 - 11/08/19 12:39 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
gehajake Offline


Registered: 12/31/18
Posts: 129
Loc: Central MO
The deer I am referring to are in a farming country with all the clover corn soybeans they can ingest available for most of the year, that being said we can tell a huge difference in antler growth in a bountiful wet yr versus a dry one, two yrs ago was a wet yr and there were tons of amazing size deer racks harvested versus 2018 was extremely dry, nice deer with giant racks were a lot more scarce.
I do believe genetics play a pretty significant roll in the outcome, not unlike all domestic animals are bred for the characteristics that one is looking for.
_________________________
All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.

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#514093 - 11/17/19 08:50 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1549
Loc: NE Missouri
A good day yesterday. Iím feeling blessed also RC.
_________________________
5 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (way too many), SMB, and HSB (rumored..)
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#514096 - 11/17/19 10:19 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14124
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
We have a massive acorn drop. Seeing a deer is exciting or I guess it would be.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#514098 - 11/17/19 11:47 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: SetterGuy]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Congrats on the buck!

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#514100 - 11/17/19 12:01 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2942
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
There is a really good buck on the property right now. Makes me want to get in a hunt but it's been just too dam cold. I hope he sticks around for the rest of the week, it's going to be pretty nice weather in the mid 60's and high 40's at night.


Nice one setter!
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#514104 - 11/17/19 03:47 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: TGW1]
Tbar Offline


Registered: 01/10/15
Posts: 750
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
How does one determine if there are too many does? Our does look to be very healthy and fat for the most part. I have been involved in another forum for years. Texas bow hunters is a good place to start for information. There are a few other places to look when it comes to deer management. Growing deer tv is another place where there is some good info. I have yet to come to an answer when it comes to how many deer is too many? I found out same as here "it depends" The state biologist are involved in the picture. They help to determine how many deer can be taken per county. My best guess is the overall harvest of deer per county guides me to believe what our deer population is in each county. Every county in Texas has different numbers when it comes to harvest. In my county it's two bucks and two does. Bucks have to be outside the ears before you can harvest. In Louisiana, Caddo Parish which is net to me, the harvest numbers are larger when it comes to does. Last time I looked it was 6 does can be taken. And for the most part the bucks are what I call basket bucks. This is most likely due to food and age and not genetics


Pat I see no participation in breeding during Oct here.



We are in the MLD program at the ranch. The state biologist comes come out, looks the place over, then give us our MLD buck and doe tags.

This year we got 14 doe and 7 buck tags and can ask for more if we need them.
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#514107 - 11/17/19 08:16 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: Tbar]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Must have a chunk of land.

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#514115 - 11/18/19 08:08 AM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2127
Loc: West Michigan
SetterGuy, that looks like a beauty!! Congrats!

I have another dumb question... It was said here that pretty much all does are pregnant after chase season is over.

My curious question is, can the bucks tell if the does they approach are already fertilized? Or do all the does get mate attempts by multiple bucks? and assume the weakest/slowest does have multiple bucks attempt to mate with them?

I was curious on whether survival of the fittest also meant that multiple bucks would attempt to fertilize the same does and certain characteristics of the males would vie for proper 'conditions' for fertilization of one or more eggs.

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#514125 - 11/18/19 03:39 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: canyoncreek]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 904
Loc: Central IL
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
SetterGuy, that looks like a beauty!! Congrats!

I have another dumb question... It was said here that pretty much all does are pregnant after chase season is over.

My curious question is, can the bucks tell if the does they approach are already fertilized? Or do all the does get mate attempts by multiple bucks? and assume the weakest/slowest does have multiple bucks attempt to mate with them?

I was curious on whether survival of the fittest also meant that multiple bucks would attempt to fertilize the same does and certain characteristics of the males would vie for proper 'conditions' for fertilization of one or more eggs.


Based on everything I know about this, a doe will only be receptive to (and available for insemination during) breeding for a 48-72 hour window each year. That's what gets the bucks all fired up - it's a short window. Based on my reading a doe will come into estrus approximately the same time each year (barring injury or illness), and most of them come in within a 2-3 week range. When that range is depends on latitude more than anything. For me in Central IL we're smack in the middle of that time right now. A single doe can and will mate with multiple bucks in that timeframe (not if the buck in residence can prevent it) and if multiple eggs are ready then they can be fertilized by more than one buck.

As to whether a buck can tell if a doe has been bred, he could care less. If she's still in estrus they'll chase her until she or they die, or until she stands to mate. Once she's out of estrus they no longer have interest in her. This would be where the term 'hot doe' comes from. I've seen this in action a dozen times or more this season alone - a buck comes up to 3-5 does in a group and basically chases one out of the herd. She's the 'hottest' - as in she's the closest to being in her estrous period.

Supposedly there have been cases where a doe will indeed fight off/run away from a buck but then immediately stand for another one for breeding. So at least in some cases personal preference seems to be in play.
_________________________
Dale



"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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#514155 - 11/19/19 04:45 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
Augie Offline


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 231
Loc: Boone County Missouri
These were taken in less than an hour Saturday morning. Mrs. Augie whacked the 10-point and both of the does.




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#514157 - 11/19/19 04:59 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RC51]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4522
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Freezer full of meat! Congrats!

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#514161 - 11/19/19 06:04 PM Re: Got a nice one Saturday!!! [Re: RAH]
Augie Offline


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 231
Loc: Boone County Missouri
Oh yeah. This morning I left 117lbs of de-boned meat at the locker plant to be made into summer sausage and slim jims.

Jalapeno/cheese deer sticks are the best snack food on the planet.

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