Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Walleye

Well I thought about putting Walleye in my two acre pond for some time. I am going today to pickup twenty-five from Stoney Creek Hatcheries in Grant Michigan. The great experiment begins.

I'm a big WE fan and really enjoy having them as a bonus catch in our pond. Three questions....What size are you stocking? What other predators and size are in your pond? What do you have for forage for the WE?

I am stocking the biggest I can get. I have big bass in there but the hatchery says that the little Walleye snakes will head to the deepest point. Which is eighteen feet.So we will see.

Unless these walleye are big enough that your bass can't eat them, I would think you would definitely want more than 25 for a 2 acre pond. Seems like a very low density

FWIW....

I will be stocking 10 more WE in our pond in a few weeks. As done in the past, I will be releasing 10lbs of GSH a half hour before I release the WE as a diversion to allow the WE a chance to acclimate some to their surroundings before being targeted by the LMB. I am stocking 7 to 9 inch WE.

Like I said just a cheap experiment. I have tons of minnows in my pond. So I am thinking that the Walleye will have a fighting change. We will see.

Great news John! Kind of a miserable day for a color tour through MI but an exciting trip all the same! So it sounds like there is no minimal order for Stoney Creek? Or did you have to split an order?

I'm just about ready to put a predator of my own in and if I could get 25 or less walleye in Grant I might just make the run myself. Any idea on how late in the season I can still go?

I'm still hoping on using a different top predator (HSB or SMB) but it would be a cool experiment to start with walleye and see what they target (for example would they target various minnow types or would they target my younger YP?)

Would you have a way of knowing what forage they are targeting?

My pond is tiny so I think in your size pond you are going to do well.

Initially I stocked ~25,000 baitfish in my 1 1/4 ac pond. Let them breed for a full year. The next year I added the rest of my fish including 24 walleye 6-8". The year after, I caught several at 14"-16" and the year after that they were 18"-21". I've only taken out 2 in the past 7 years of the pond's existence and look forward to seeing a couple to examine condition, length, weight, etc.

Thanks for the walleye update. It is going good so far. Keep us updated on the pond's progress.

20-21" walleye in year 3 is very substantial growth. That would be considered very high growth rate in my book.
Nicely done!
With Favorable conditions in my area, 16-17" for yr 3 is normal so you're doing something right. Keep it up.

I am just curious has anyone had their Walleye spawn?

I did, at least one year. 2 years after I restocked my 1 acre pond (completely drained and restocked from scratch) my kids and I were out swimming in it and there were some 1.5-2" fry swimming near our floating dock. I managed to catch one and it was 100% a WE.

Pond has rocky bank and an almost constant flow of water in from the east. Some of the experts here said that may have been the triggering factor. No ides, and haven't seen any since then (2 years ago).

Has anyone reported success in getting walleye to eat pellets?
If they don't eat them directly, do they learn to target the smaller fish that are eating pellets at feeding time?

I'm wondering outside of lots of minnows or shiners, what else can you build up in the forage base for them to eat, crayfish?

I found this interesting thread about what anglers find in the stomach of walleye.

I'd be curious if the biologists can confirm that stomach acid is different (more acidic) than other fish as the member states in his post. He feels the prey in a walleye stomach turns to liquid much faster than bass or other fish. Possible?

I have to believe the GBH on my property must have super digestion. He can pack a huge goldfish bigger than his neck down his throat and somehow not gain a pound and still feel hungry enough to keep hunting for another treat.

Looks like in this post the conclusion is that if there is content left in their stomach that they like small BG, YP, certain kinds of (soft) crayfish, gobies and any kind of minnow.

Walleye stomach contents

John, would love to hear updates on how they are doing. You likely won't see them again for a while but maybe you will catch them somehow in the spring.

ewest our technical PB writer might be able to find a scientific article about this topic. I doubt very much that walleye have stronger stomach acid compared to other predator fish that have to deal with bones in their food. IMO biggest factor in rate of digestion of food in fish stomach has a lot to do with water temperature.

That particular article is a bit misleading.. BUT, I can say if you see the silvery/grey discharge, that is indication of mostly shad content being run through the digestive process.
As Bill suggests, I have no data either, nor have I heard of WAE having a higher acid than other comparable fish.

For years my buddy has been trying to convince me to put WE in our lake. I have always refused because I was too worried about them reproducing and messing up my Brook Trout plans. It seems like I read somewhere Bill Cody said they would reproduce if they had windblown rocky shoreline and I have a good bit of that.

For me, it would be a cool bonus fish as long as they didn't reproduce. I know they would be easier to over Winter than trout. Is reproduction a legitimate threat for me?

I don't remember the title of that thread but Bill and I both commented-if I remember correctly-to never say never.
If you have rock substrate with windblown frequency, it "could" happen.
I feel it is possible but probability is low.
Another possibility at your location is that at your altitude, the photo period may drive the walleye to spawn but water temp may be such that the female never releases eggs and actually reabsorbs them.

Thanks Snipe! It sounds like even if they were able to spawn they would have a hard time taking over the lake. I do have a good bit of rock and add multiple tandem loads each year and I have a TON of wind on the water. Like basically everyday.

What time of the year do they spawn?

Walleye are driven to their spawning grounds or staging areas in late fall/early winter. when photo period approaches 12 hrs they begin to spawn or attempt to. If water temps are not correct for eggs to ripen, the female will extend her time in the area until temps are right or until a time period goes by that triggers the female to reabsorb the eggs. It also takes large numbers of males present to stimulate the female to continue with the spawning process.
Several factors come into play beyond what I've mentioned here but photo period, temp and ratio of males are 3 huge factors.

Expect to have walleye spawning at spring water temperatures of 42-46F and some later spawning can extend to 50F. Snipe is well experienced with working with WE during the spring spawn. IMO I would stay with keeping the lake a trout lake especially since you have refined the aeration technique for severe winter weather conditions.

Completely agree with Bill on not taking a chance with ruining your trout lake.
I love my Walleye but for what you've put into your system to sustain trout, I would really hate to upset that delicate balance.
I could add that the small amount of data we have on higher elevation WAE does NOT include waters that have viable trout populations- a lot of complexity there, some of the variables we may not even recognize.

I agree with Bill. Rate of digestion is a function of water temp (controls metabolism). While max growth and max feeding are not at the same temp in many species (see recent PB mag article) they are highly related. Let me check for more info.

Looked at several studies comparing SMB vs WE and LMB vs WE that contained lots of info on stomach contents , growth , energetics, water temps and food competition. Very extensive data - no mention/indication that WE had stronger stomach acid. They did provide that the amount of inverts , insects and small fish were what WE consumed. Stomach contents indicated far more insects and inverts than LMB or SMB. See below from another source - FishBase.

http://fishbase.org/TrophicEco/FoodItems...species=vitreus

Snipe and Bill - Thanks for the input.

wbuffetjr
With respect to WAE spawning, our (Colorado) Parks and Wildlife Department has been netting and removing fertile WAE here on the West Slope of Colorado and releasing sterile WAE. The intent is to reduce the risk of WAE escaping reservoirs, reproducing in the Colorado River tributaries, and predating several species of native fishes.

An example I can give is our McPhee and Narraguinnep Reservoirs here in southwest Colorado. McPhee is and impoundment of the Dolores River; Narraguinnep is in the San Juan River drainage. Both of these rivers are in the Colorado system.

I have no idea if sterile (possible triploid?) walleye are commercially available in this state. If they are, and you chose to stock a few, then at least they would not increase in number in your high mountain trout lake. It could be that a small number of sterile WAE would be a useful tool to limit brook trout recruitment, if that were ever to become an issue for you.

Interesting...

4Corners - great idea! You read my mind. With they way Brook Trout are known to overpopulate and stunt I was thinking about a predator that could help with harvest, but not take over. Tiger Musky is an option but they get so big I think they might eat bigger fish than I would want taken plus WAE are supposedly so good to eat.

Of course all this assumes I can get the Brookies to survive AND then reproduce. Also assuming I cannot handle the harvest myself - I personally think Brook Trout is the best eating fish ever.

I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.

wbuffetjr-I'm right with you on the tastiness of brookies. While on high country backpacking trips, I've had the incredible opportunity to cook and eat golden trout, cutthroat trout, and brook trout in the very same meal. They're all fantastic; the brookies have the edge though in the flavor department.

Walleye are every bit as delicious as advertised. However, there is just something extra about eating trout, cooked over an open fire, that have been feasting on scuds.

I commend you for your diligence and progress towards you goal of a brook trout lake.

I will check around for sterile WAE just out of curiosity.
To my knowledge, this is a small scale experiment.
When you split the chromosome into 3 after fertilization with 2800-3000psi, you cut the percentage of hatch in half.
Best case would be 25% of eggs fertilized-best case.
This is going to be a state or federal hatchery only deal.

If someone skilled in handling Walleye was able to help, would you be able to wait till spawning season and separate males from females so you could be supplied with and stock single sex walleye?

Just an idea to check out - not a suggestion.

In different bodies of water the survival rate of Walleye fry to adulthood may range from 1% to 10%, depending on predation and other factors. That figure is basically the same for stocked Saugeye fry. With Saugeye, a hybrid, however, only a small percentage of the fish that reach adulthood will be capable of producing viable eggs. Then, of course, if those eggs aren't deposited in the proper spawning areas, under the right conditions, and fertilized with milt from that equally small percentage of male Saugeyes who are virile, the whole point is moot.
In the right body of water, with the right conditions, Saugeye can and do reproduce, but in a limited way, and not in a way to sustain a population without stocking.

I have no idea how a saugeye tastes.

Absolutely. But, males are not sexually mature until year 2 at earliest, generally around the 11-12" mark and Females at year 3-4 around the 18-19" mark.

ewest, most folks can't tell the difference in SAE vs WAE in Taste, and surprisingly, most think they have a WAE in-hand and it's a SAE when caught.
I might add that SAE can be sexed also but getting a hand on stock is nearly impossible in any number.

Any sign of the original stockers john?

I did a little digging on this and what they are doing is genetically modifying females to be sterile-Trojan males if you will.
The problem with this is they are removing "X" fish and replacing with "X" fish. They still have to eat, they still can breach the system and if managed in the most common forms we use, they are restocking whether the fish is harvested or the fish breached and is now in another BOW.
They (Milford percid techs) tell me it costs more to genetically modify than to stock in any other form.
It would make sense to me-with this information-to stock male only WAE at the 11-12" size if someone decided to try it.
Seldom does a male ever exceed 3lbs, 17-19" so you'd know what size forage they would/could consume.

Thanks for the info Snipe. I don't think the males would get big enough to help me. I hope to be able to grow 3lb+ Brookies. I was considering a second predator with a 10lb or so potential that could help me harvest the 6"-10"ish Brook Trout. WAE seem like too much trouble to try to make work. Probably safer to use Tiger Trout since they are sterile.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Go female only....:-))

Interesting --- So, to get back to John's post about walleye in ponds.. The Hypoxia CO Trout Thread is great - but high-jacked this one

I released 20 in a 1.5 ac pond and 25 in a 2.5 ac pond in November.

Video of snakes at Fenders FH

I know I have to take out 'some' Small - Med LMB 12"-20" to make room for these predator's so the question is "how many need to come out" which is prolly dependent on forage.

This spring I added a shitton of FHM GSH YP. Both ponds have BG and LMB. Plan to add more FMD and GSH in the smaller pond and tilapia in the big pond every year - Walleye every 2 years in the same amounts with a plan to start a walleye harvest in 2 years.

Please throw stones at the above plan(s)... Thanks for the forum!

Save your $ on FHM stocking and invest in other forage types or boost investment on YP and GSH stocking. FHM are an expensive snack in an established fishery. Too bad the hatcheries never dispense this advice. A guy I know in NE does 90% of his fish business selling FHM to established fisheries all over the state, primarly HOA's that have little to zero awareness of fishery management but have an annual budget to spend. It's a great business, for him I guess...but I won't sell FHM to any of my clients due to my perceived breach in ethics unless it's part of our initial stocking strategy. GSH, Shrimp, Crayfish, YP??? You bet, all day long, and with a clear conscience!

Regarding your WE stocking, I recommend periodic supplemental stocking programs to my clients. Depending on catch and growth rates it will dictate the number to ladder stock. Density of apex predator population is an important factor to keep in mind - we don't want to deplete the forage base or all predator suffer from low growth rates and poor body condition. Still, I'd wager your 2.5 AC fishery could handle a standing population of around 50-75 adult WE provided the forage base is strong, and up to 50 in the 1.5 AC fishery. These are very broad recommendations - allow your sampling results [frequency of angling] and WR to determine the right qty for your unique fishery. Your fisheries may tell a much different story and you'll need to adjust these numbers.

I think you may face a bit of a challenge with presence of LMB in both fisheries to get the WE population strong, but I have fished some decent WE fisheries with LMB present so it can be done.

Hope some of this helps...I'd double down on the GSH and YP stocking if your predator WR and growth rates are suffering and cull any LMB under 100 for starters. If the YP are too expensive focus on the GSH.

As I was reading thru this thread I was wondering about the possibility of saugeye only stocking and the reproductive capability. Thank you ewest for that input. Very interesting information and one of the reasons I come to this forum regularly.

NEDOC, in our area it would be extremely rare for triploid SAE to reproduce. In 20 years we have confirmation of recruitment in 2 impoundments (in KS), the first was 11 yrs ago using diploid stock, and last year we found recruitment in a 135ac BOW from Triploid stock. It's extremely rare in most areas but more common in areas where both sauger and walleye exist. Not talking about natural hybrids, I'm talking about SAE recruits.