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How many times can you catch...?
#511737 09/18/19 11:15 PM
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Ok so Iíve been enjoying reading these forums. One thing Iíve seen a number of times is that you shouldnít release channels as they become hook shy. I would never have guessed this as I would expect a fish that hunts by smell and has relatively poor vision to be the easiest to fool multiple times. Curious what causes them to become hook shy? I would have guessed simply changing the bait would make it easy to fool them over and again.

Second question - how many times can you catch other species before they become uncatchable? I once caught a giant smb about four times in two weeks.

I would love to learn more about the reasons channels are hard to catch repeatedly and how they compare to other species with respect to repeated catchability.

Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511738 09/18/19 11:58 PM
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My opinion here.. Fish feed (or bite) for different reasons, one of which is hunger but another more important reason is a reaction strike. Keep in mind there are 2 perspectives on this. Anglers perspective and the biological perspective. An angler notes catching "X" fish 4 times-to the angler the fish "fed" 4 times. The biological perspective my be that this fish was caught due to being triggered in a reactive way, 3 of the 4 times. Instinct told the fish to react to an opportunity. It may not have been hunger. Cats trigger in a more direct way, their sense of smell and taste may lead from through a much longer period of time from picking up scent to actually coming across whatever that scent is. Cats have more time to learn a process and become shy much quicker than other species. It's "learned behavior", but they spend more time from scenting to eating. Several of our Hatchery personnel consider cats quite "smart" compared to other species.
The time period between catch events probably has more to do with it than anything. You might catch the same cat 2 times a year for 5-6-7 yrs, but it may not be interested in 5-6-7 times a summer.


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Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511742 09/19/19 08:13 AM
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I have caught a 6 lb. channel cat that had 2 hooks in it's mouth and 1 large hole where it had bin on a limb line for a long time. Plus my hook. So some don't learn.


61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
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Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511746 09/19/19 09:45 AM
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At my pond...if you catch one fish with a particular type of bait, it tells the others and significantly reduces any further bites. At this point, I think they have wised up beyond bait style and are now looking for the eye of the hook and/or the line, maybe even a bobber at the surface. I know this is not near entirely true, but it sure seems like it at times. And, I do not overfish, or should I say "over-catch" my pond. I have probably caught and returned 70 fish since it was stocked 1-1/2 years ago.

I have caught, at least one, HBG twice, but I would certainly bet it was different bait both times.

Somehow, I thought (prior to the pond build) that I was going to easily create a fish catching haven...really, how can a 1/4 acre pond with over 600 fish in it be so hard to catch a few fish, let alone fill a basket?

"Hook shy" is a concern of mine, but they can't get much harder to catch than they are right now. I think they are spoiled on natural foods and pellets.


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511747 09/19/19 10:34 AM
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There is a lot here on catchability and articles in PB mag. Scientific articles with proof of catchability and its heritable nature.

See these and get the mag.


http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post158885

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post466598



Last edited by ewest; 09/19/19 10:39 AM.















Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511757 09/19/19 10:47 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Ewest I appreciate the links and will probably subscribe here shortly. Certainly a great resource worth supporting.

Snipe I appreciate the thought about the reaction strike being different than the more methodical proc as a cat goes through in seeking a meal. i am a bit curious why I only seem to see reference to channels becoming hook shy? Why would they be more apt to develop this trait than other cats? Or I s it simply a case that more channels are released in ponds than other cats - this we get more info about them.

I have been growing channels in a stock tank all summer and can see clearly that no two are alike. They all started out about the same size. Some are now exponentially larger than when I started. Others have grown very little. If growth rate is so variable it stands to reason that other traits like catchability or hook shyness could also be highly variable. Interesting stuff for sure and I appreciate the feedback on my question.

Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511765 09/20/19 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ryan M
I have been growing channels in a stock tank all summer and can see clearly that no two are alike. They all started out about the same size. Some are now exponentially larger than when I started. Others have grown very little. If growth rate is so variable it stands to reason that other traits like catchability or hook shyness could also be highly variable.


Genetics is interesting. It's amazing how widely it can vary in a group of the "same".

Last edited by jludwig; 09/20/19 08:12 AM.
Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511768 09/20/19 09:32 AM
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All sorts of variability among individuals of all species is normal and is contributed to a large part due to genetics. Undoubtedly some fish species have the ability to become conditioned ("learn ability") better than other species. And just as in humans, some learn quicker than others.


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Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511769 09/20/19 10:15 AM
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Just to add my opinion, I think sometimes we offer too much to our fish. A really good forage and feeding program and I seldom catch a LMB. The BG are just easy, but the larger ones are full from all the small ones. Or at least that is the way I see it. A friend with a nice large pond, mine is half-acre, says he stops feeding them 2-3 days before he wants to fish, just so the are hungry. Maybe that is the answer to better catches.


half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
have fun fishing. And I subscribe!
Re: How many times can you catch...?
Funky #511770 09/20/19 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Funky
Just to add my opinion, I think sometimes we offer too much to our fish. A really good forage and feeding program and I seldom catch a LMB. The BG are just easy, but the larger ones are full from all the small ones. Or at least that is the way I see it. A friend with a nice large pond, mine is half-acre, says he stops feeding them 2-3 days before he wants to fish, just so the are hungry. Maybe that is the answer to better catches.


I can see the logic in that!


Fish on!,
Noel
Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511776 09/20/19 02:32 PM
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That is an offshoot of compensatory feeding. Feed some then stop/slow and then after a pause feed again and they eat ravenously. In theory they eat more overall and thus grow faster. Your method is to catch them when they are waiting for the next feeding. I wonder if over time that will result in less effective results for that feeding method.
















Re: How many times can you catch...?
Ryan M #511818 09/22/19 08:05 AM
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I have never caught and released a CC but I continually can see them come to a bait, look at it or smell it and turn and leave it. I can once in a while catch one after the feeder goes and they be distracted due to the pellets. I now catch most on live minnows probably due to the movement of the minnow and not noticing the line or hook.
I have seen the very same thing now with the HSB. I can only catch them on live minnows. I have also never caught and released a HSB but have seen them come to a minnow on a hook and quickly turn and leave. I have thrown live minnows in the water and they attack them quickly but as soon as I put one on the hook they swim up to it and leave. We still will catch one of each once in a while but nothing like a couple years ago. Our water it quite clear and I am sure that has an effect but I think the hook shyness is for sure learned. Needless to say our CC and HSB are getting quite large.


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