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#511641 - 09/16/19 05:26 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
gehajake Offline


Registered: 12/31/18
Posts: 91
Loc: Central MO
Pat W. That is one thing about them, if they are overpopulated they will let you know pretty quickly, if you catch a bunch of stunted mediocre small ones you may be overpopulated, if you aren't catching that many and they do have nice size to them you are in the drivers seat. to me, having too many crappy in your pond is like having too many rotting strawberries in your patch,,, you aren't eating enough of them, and why aren't you?
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#511643 - 09/16/19 05:58 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: gehajake]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Geha the average size is 8-10Ē more 8S than 10. Even this spring the catch rate is down lower than before. The only thing I can come up with is the larger LMB are feasting on them or they need a bait change to get em biting. May have to revert to live bait vs jigs .

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#511941 - 09/25/19 09:17 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
kswaterfowler Offline


Registered: 04/17/16
Posts: 86
Loc: East Central Kansas
Fwiw the local fish farm swears by a few 8-10" walleye to cure the stunted crappie problem. Buddy has a pond chockerblock full of 6" crappie. He is going to try HSB. My pond isnt large but deep and full of brush. I am going to experiment with a few BCP. It will be easy to reset my pond if all else fails.

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#511977 - 09/25/19 05:43 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12949
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
My question for the local fish farm saying 8"-10" walleye will cure stunted crappie; how are small walleye supposed to eat 4"-6" crappie? For walleye to eat 5"-6" crappie the WE would need to be 24"+. Putting small WE in a pond full of stunted crappie means the crappie have overeaten all basic foods that stocker walleye would need to grow. How will walleye survive long enough to get big enough to eat 6" crappie????? WE 8"-10" would need crappie that are 1"-1.7" as forage. Plus - walleye are primarily bottom oriented fish whereas crappie are more open water fish. The two species spend little time in the same habitat location - niches are opposite.
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#511978 - 09/25/19 07:42 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Bill Cody]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
+1 on Bills comment above.

In a bow already overrun with runt crappie only large predators can resolve it. If one doesn't want to kill out such BOW it very may be a situation where one could consider letting one 10 lb flathead per acre have its way for 3 years before removing it.


It seems to me that the situation of 4" to 6" runts cannot be fully corrected until the crappie biomass is reduced to the point that a portion of the population can achieve breeding status. Once they begin producing YOY then one could ladder stock the predator of choice.

IMHO, one needs larger predators than for a trophy BG BOW where very numerous small predators seem to work best. I think LMB ranging from 2 to 8 lbs would work well. Predators this large will not compete with the crappie. They will be eating crappie that the largest crappie cannot. In a sense, the largest crappie fill the niche that small bass would. I wonder if a female LMB only BOW with crappie may be good choice particularly where a non-competing additional disappearing prey species like Moz. TP provide additional forage from mid-July to die-off. Such a BOW may have potential to grow both large crappie and trophy LMB. I think a ladder of 2-4 females per acre every other year would be sufficient. An example of such a ladder stock plan is below with the goal of growing >10lb LMB.


Attachments
Female LMBnCrappie.xlsx (30 downloads)


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#511983 - 09/25/19 09:13 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Bill Cody]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Agreed Mr Bill
Wouldnít HSB be better equipped for handling YOY BCP in open water ?

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#511990 - 09/26/19 06:44 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14046
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Lusk once mentioned a large, as I recall, 40 to 50 acre place that was over run with stunted crappie. The owners didnít want to nuke them so he successfully used hsb
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#511993 - 09/26/19 06:54 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2884
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I have seen a school of larger sized hsb thrashing the water up when feeding on something in the pond. When they feed like that, anything they can get on their mouth is likely to be eaten. It's like a wall of fish moving through.
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#512011 - 09/26/19 12:17 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Bill Cody Online   content
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12949
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
The main first concern with stunted crappie is how to initially reduce the overabundance of 5"-6" crappie that have over eaten the lower food chain and now make it hard for any other stocked juvenile fish to compete and survive if the stocker fish is not big enough to immediately eat the over abundant specie. What will the stocked small predators eat until they are big enough to eat the stunted specie?
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#512023 - 09/26/19 02:07 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Bill Cody]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Break the chain

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#512040 - 09/26/19 06:23 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Bill Cody]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
... What will the stocked small predators eat until they are big enough to eat the stunted specie?


This is the catch 22. One needs big predators to get things moving in the right direction. I can see one advantage with the HSB. If they are not yet big enough when stocked they can be supplemental fed until they can be weaned from the feed. Even so, they will not improve the stunted crappie condition until they are big enough to eat the stunted crappie. HSB are good predators. Even so, at the optimum size of 20"+ they are vulnerable to angling mortality in many small BOWs.


Edited by jpsdad (09/26/19 07:26 PM)

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#512050 - 09/27/19 08:48 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
gehajake Offline


Registered: 12/31/18
Posts: 91
Loc: Central MO
I consider myself the BCP's worst predator.
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All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.

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#512083 - 09/27/19 05:37 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: gehajake]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: gehajake
I consider myself the BCP's worst predator.


This is such a great reply.

Given a small enough BOW to work with I really do think that gehajake could turn a severly stunted BOW around ... yes completely on his own. I'm with you gehajake. Those stunted fish are just like complaining about strawberries rotting on the vine.

My home town has a municipal lake with loads of small crappie. Most between 7 and 9 inches. I have NEVER released a crappie in that lake. Not once ... and this includes fish below 7". The smaller fish pan fry just fine but after I got married my bride made me filet those little suckers. I could almost see through them little filets. She liked them fried crisp but later a friend of mine introduced me to crappie jerky and until we later moved that's what I did with them (the tiny thin filets).


Edited by jpsdad (09/27/19 05:50 PM)

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#512086 - 09/27/19 06:45 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
I think that calls for a recipe... what say you jpsdad

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#512088 - 09/27/19 06:57 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1919
Loc: East Texas, USA
I was thinking Tiger Musky, which don't reproduce and are a blast to catch. However, they tend to hang out in shallow weedy areas so might not be best for controlling BCP. If LMB overabundance were the issue, that would be another matter!


Edited by anthropic (09/27/19 07:05 PM)
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8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#512092 - 09/27/19 08:49 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Pat Williamson]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
I think that calls for a recipe... what say you jpsdad


Pat, I enjoy preparing food but I should tell you in advance that I hardly ever measure anything unless its for biscuits or pancakes. Otherwise I just wing it and I'm not sure if I have ever made the same dish twice. My friend who shared the "recipe" was pretty much of the very same mind and so I totally "got it" when he shared his recipe. Since it was his I will tell the way I remember.


"Take a large bowl and grab a couple of handfuls of brown sugar. Add some chili powder or hot pepper flakes and some garlic powder. Add Worcester sauce until you make a thick sauce. The perfect fish is a small crappie and the smaller the better. Drop the filets in the sauce and get them covered well and then place in dehydrator to dry. When they are ready (overnight) they will still be a little flexible and a chewy texture. Not completely dry like beef jerky. I would say to refrigerate them but they won't last that long. Trust me ... you won't want to share them either."

I can tell you that they are yum and they make just like he described. I could never get my bride to try them but think just about anyone who would try it ... I think would really like them. The key is small fish so they finish quickly though I never tried it with the larger ones. Just followed his instructions. If anyone who reads this has visible parasites on their fish (as happens in many ponds), I would say cook them and don't do this. The crappie in our lake were free of any visible parasites and I never got ill from them. Use your own best judgment.

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#512093 - 09/27/19 08:53 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Mmmmm sounds goot!

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#512097 - 09/27/19 09:57 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Pat Williamson]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Think we have too many predators at the moment and not enough reqruitment of BCP if that is possible.

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#512104 - 09/27/19 11:18 PM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1919
Loc: East Texas, USA
I might try with BG. Not a fan of taste BCP.
_________________________
8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#512114 - 09/28/19 06:19 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: anthropic]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Guess thatís why the good Lord made different kinds of fishies something to suit us all

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#512122 - 09/28/19 07:35 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2884
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Pat, since you live so close to Todd Overton, have you talked to him about your CP and your pond? I understand going by his place might cause you to spend more money smile lol but his knowledge about such things is so valuable don't you think?


Edited by TGW1 (09/28/19 07:36 AM)
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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#512125 - 09/28/19 08:33 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: Pat Williamson]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1919
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
Guess thatís why the good Lord made different kinds of fishies something to suit us all


You're so right on that! One of my best friends absolutely disdains BG, not just to eat but also to catch. Would rather catch a 6 oz LMB than a 12 oz BG. frown


Edited by anthropic (09/28/19 08:39 AM)
_________________________
8ac E Tx, full 3/16. CNBG, RES, FHM 10/15; TP 5/16; FLMB 6/16. 100 12" NLMB & 1k GSH 10/17. 150# TP & 70 HSB 5/18. 1k PK 11/18. 100# TP 4/19





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#512127 - 09/28/19 08:53 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
Frank you can use BG for that. The friend who shared the recipe did and suggested BG as a secondary option. Though I like BG for eating, just like Pat, I prefer crappie. The flesh seems firmer to me, the filets thicker, the yield better, and they are easy to catch year round. What I really liked about those 7" to 9" crappie was just how easy it was to filet them with a rapala filet knife. The bones are smaller than BG of similar length and the shape of the body is not so awkward to get a full filet (you know that area right behind the head). I could get through a mess of 30 crappie, most of the time, without having to re-sharpen the knife.

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#512128 - 09/28/19 09:26 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
jpsdad Online   content


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 376
Loc: Texas
OK so this is a bit off topic ...

For BG, there is a floating theory hanging around that a harvest weight needs to exceed 1 lb. Now I am just talking what is described as their "marketable weight". All I can say is that it is quite unfortunate that such impressions prevail for the typical consumer. This weight is quite impractical to make BG a truly commercial fish. I prefer to release BG this weight and keep 5 to 7 in bluegill. I know a lot folks will find it difficult to wrap around their minds but is truly is a matter of perception and I guess in part one's history and roots.

Every BOW needs predators like gehajake and jpsdad IMHO. smile There is so much food, recreation, and enjoyment out there utterly rotting on the vine and in many cases doing this eating, recreating, and enjoying is just exactly what those waters need to improve the quality and size of the fish residing within them.


Edited by jpsdad (09/28/19 09:27 AM)

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#512152 - 09/29/19 10:43 AM Re: Considerations for BOW owners that desire crappie [Re: jpsdad]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2834
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
You are so correct about the size thing. My problem is that I donít care for the flavor of our BG, especially in the summer heat. May throw in a few BG with LMB and my favorite BCP later this fall if the water ever cools down. After decades of catching and eating red snapper and mahi mahi grouper and such itís really hard to consume some of these little guys ..... Iím trying to convert.....

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