Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Grit160, Falcons_King, Aakash, REDRIDER07, Sparkyyc
18,441 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,872
Posts556,784
Members18,441
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,365
ewest 21,463
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,097
Who's Online Now
3 members (Boondoggle, MnAngler, 4CornersPuddle), 625 guests, and 203 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Ryan P. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
(Go to the bottom of this post for the hole if you don't want backstory)

About Dec 2017, I had this pond dug renovated (it never held water before) by a local excavator that digs ponds, I assumed he'd do it "right" and I couldn't find any other options so I went with him ( side note, I'm amazed I can find no reputable companies around here that do this).
The biggest thing he did wrong, as pointed out by Pond Boss alumni, TJ (who is freaking awesome by the way, so much knowledge...) is he used the treads on the dozer to pack and did not use a sheepsfoot roller to pack the clay. He in fact did all of the work with the dozer.

December 2017:
image broken

almost full by February 2018 you can see the black drain pipe on the left, I was super excited by this point.
image broken

down ~8 feet by July 2018, much less excited.
image broken

The pond never dried up but kept fluctuating with the rain, this is September 2019, I pumped it nearly dry, see what I discovered below the photo.
[Linked Image from img.fae.ro]

(end of backstory)

The culprit has revealed itself. I found this hole, and then one smaller about 10ft from this.
This hole is not on the dam side, it's actually on the opposite side of the pond from the dam.


I've had several contractors out to look at this, now keep in mind, these guys are like Jim-Bob from back in the hollar who just happen to do dozer work for a living, so they aren't what I would consider experts. One suggestion was rebuilding the entire dam and digging the dam down deeper, another was to go find clay somewhere nearby on my property and repacking the pond in about 2ft of clay, and yet another was to put a liner in the pond and covering the liner in clay. Someone else said dig down find the rock seam and blast it, this one sounds the most fun :p .
These all sound super expensive.

How would you suggest attempting a fix, have any of you seen a hole like this develop? what did you do?
Here are some of my cheaper ideas.
-I could fill it full of sodium bentonite + pray.
-I could pour soilfloc down in it and let the next rain carry it on into the hole (hopefully plugging things)
-Dig down with a track hoe, exposing the issue, repack it with clay -or- determine another option once I see where the water is going.

Last edited by Ryan P.; 06/22/20 10:20 AM.

"No Fish were to be catchd to day neither."
George Washington, Diary entry, 14 April 1760
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Likes: 5
R
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
R
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Likes: 5
Holy drain hole! that's impressive. Might even be a sinkhole? looks like it may go right down into a cave. I think I would try to pump all the water out to see if there are any other drains.

Then it sure wouldn't hurt to try packing it/them with a $300 worth of bentonite 1,000 lbs? Need to get the first couple bagfuls way down in there before any clogs temporarily plug it. Then probably better to dig out a 10 foot circle(?) with a trackhoe, lay in a impervious fabric layer to prevent soil going down if a suck-hole develops and cover it with more bentonite on it, then pack with clay. Then you haven't spent much $$ before the big cost of packing the entire pond bottom with clay.


[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 271
R
Offline
R
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 271
Probably the wrong thing to do, but I would be inclined to dig down and see what I was dealing with. I would be concerned water would just find a way around any type of plug you created and drain again.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Ryan P. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Thanks for the suggestions guys! It's much appreciated!


"No Fish were to be catchd to day neither."
George Washington, Diary entry, 14 April 1760
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,007
Likes: 270
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,007
Likes: 270
Agree with Roundy. Figure out the whole/hole problem.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 271
R
Offline
R
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 271
I have seen something similar to this around here once. Perfect black fertile farm ground developing sink holes. There it was underground coal mining for the power plant. Don't happen to be in a mining area do you, those rascals can go quite a ways underground horizontally from mine access point. If that is case, digging deeper could get interesting to say the least.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
N
Offline
N
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 231
Likes: 10
If you dig a hole with a track hoe deeper than 4 foot. Do not crawl in it to inspect it. Sides can cave in and there is no way to get you dug out fast enough to save you.

Last edited by nehunter; 09/13/19 07:40 AM.

61 acre water shed lake. bass, channel cat, black crappie, wiper, walleye, redear sunfish, blue catfish and bluegill. To many bullhead and common carp
http://www.pondboss.com/news/videos/why-subscribe-to-pond-boss
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Ryan P. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
This is all excellent advice, really appreciated. smile

So far it sounds like the best route it to dig down and try to figure out what I'm dealing with.

This morning I took a fence post, placed it into the hole, and drove it ~2ft before I hit solid rock, so right now I'm thinking it might be a rock seam.

Also I think 'Coal country' is further east of me, and I have no other sinkholes on the property.


"No Fish were to be catchd to day neither."
George Washington, Diary entry, 14 April 1760
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 40
A
Offline
A
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 40
My wife's uncle told me about a leaking pond that developed a hole so big he lost a calf in it. Took a couple years to plug it but he stuffed in bales of hay and they'd wash down into the hole. Finally dumped in concrete and its been holding strong ever since.

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
T
Offline
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 57
The hay is a good way to go when looking for a bridging agent to seal off seepage in a big hole . I would break up the bales though. Add all the bales you can get in the hole and then add a lot of bentonite on top of it all. One way to look at it is to consider the hay as a fiber material. If you ever played pixie sticks and dropped them in a pile on a table, that is what a bridging agent might look like. And then do a very thick cover of bentonite to seal off the small holes in the pixie sticks. If the hole is large enough you might try doing all this in layers.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Ryan P. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Great archer and TGW! Once I can get a track hoe and see what I'm dealing with that's definitely something I'll consider.

If anyone else has any other suggestions or things I may need to consider let me know smile

Last edited by Ryan P.; 09/16/19 12:03 PM.

"No Fish were to be catchd to day neither."
George Washington, Diary entry, 14 April 1760
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 19
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 19
Originally Posted By: TGW1
The hay is a good way to go when looking for a bridging agent to seal off seepage in a big hole . I would break up the bales though. Add all the bales you can get in the hole and then add a lot of bentonite on top of it all. One way to look at it is to consider the hay as a fiber material. If you ever played pixie sticks and dropped them in a pile on a table, that is what a bridging agent might look like. And then do a very thick cover of bentonite to seal off the small holes in the pixie sticks. If the hole is large enough you might try doing all this in layers.


Wouldn't the hay rot away after a couple of years and allow the hole to open up again? I think geotextile with gravelly "parking lot" clay over it, then bentonite over that might be a better option. Just an opinion.

1 member likes this: esshup
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 887
Likes: 3
B
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 887
Likes: 3
I think I would mix two or three sacks thin mortar and pour into the hole, then cover with however many bags of bentonite it takes and see what happens. If it continues to leak you know know where the hole is and can drain it back down.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Ryan P. Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
(Sorry for resurrecting this. Thought some people would like to know the progress)
FYI I ended up digging out the 2 holes by hand. I dumped a bag of concrete in the bottom of the holes and filled them with sodium bentonite the rest of the way (I used about 10- 80lb bags.
It filled up right after that. It's definitely holding *better* now but it still has a slow leak. It still hasn't filled up all the way.
It has dropped about 4ft since it's highest in January. We haven't had a lot of rain
I spread 180lbs of soilfloc around the area of the suspected leak 2 days ago. Now we wait again smile
Current photo
[Linked Image from img.fae.ro]

Last edited by Ryan P.; 06/22/20 10:19 AM.

"No Fish were to be catchd to day neither."
George Washington, Diary entry, 14 April 1760
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 107
R
Offline
R
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 107
Please keep us posted. I havnt to this day had a hole. But always read these types of post because in the pond game who knows.


The people who say I can't do it can just sit the @^#% down and watch me. Friends call me Rusto I also subscribe to pond boss mag. http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504716#Post504716
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,177
Likes: 28
L
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,177
Likes: 28
Oh cool thanks for following up, I remember reading this post. I would have done the same thing with hand digging. I would have worried the excavating equipment would do a lot of damage getting into and out of the basin, or just needing to wait too long for conditions to get right.

It is always amazing the geology under our feet. Under my house from what I have researched is something like this:
~150ft of glacial mix. ~50ft of oil shale with natural gas, ~100ft thick mix of shale transition to limestone with natural gas, ~25ft to ~100ft thick layer of rock salt, limestone on down to who knows what.

That layer of rock salt is mined in Geneseo nearby, where it is thicker. There is an underground city with massive equipment down there. There are few collapses around the area where the pillars were not big enough to support the land above. I own my mineral rights, so that should not happen here. If it did, we would have to worry about those collapses.

Water drillers in the area always worry about hitting the salt. It is not a flat layer, and when they hit it, they have to back-fill the well with concrete and try again or the salt will contaminate the ground water.

The slower leak you may have, should hopefully be remedied by the Soilfloc. It has so far worked wonders on my seepage issues.

Last edited by liquidsquid; 06/23/20 07:48 AM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
PasquotankPond
Recent Posts
What did you do at your pond today?
by Boondoggle - 03/19/24 12:13 AM
Horizontal vs Vertical (big bass)?
by FishinRod - 03/18/24 09:41 PM
Watershed or Groundwater Pond?
by FishinRod - 03/18/24 09:30 PM
Pond needs help!
by Falcons_King - 03/18/24 06:31 PM
A modest proposal
by anthropic - 03/18/24 06:29 PM
Hybrid Striper Stocking Frequency
by esshup - 03/18/24 05:26 PM
Rust in Small Engine Gas Tank
by esshup - 03/18/24 05:17 PM
Bladderwort problem
by ewest - 03/18/24 02:49 PM
Managing black crappie
by Sunil - 03/18/24 12:47 PM
Reducing fish biomass
by Snipe - 03/17/24 10:08 PM
Water hyacinth woes: Dredging?
by esshup - 03/17/24 05:52 PM
I'M NEW SO BEAR WITH ME
by FishinRod - 03/17/24 04:12 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5