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#397050 01/09/15 05:16 PM
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Decided to do some reading on Spotted Bass (SPB) so while at it just as well post some links of what information was found in case someone else is interested.

In-Fisherman article They speak kind of highly of SPB. Could SPB be the SMB equivalent for southern waters? Says will stand higher temperatures and more turbid water.

SPB in Texas Hard fighters and agressive.

SPB maybe be used for trophy BG pond?????? I've read that SMB will not keep the BG population down enough. SPB has mouth size between LMB and SMB. In trophy BG ponds it is said to remove the largest LMB and keep a high population of small/medium LMB. Maybe SPB would fit the nitch for BG control in BG trophy pond without having to remove larger fish because SPB do not get as big (up to about 10 lb max)?????? Just a thought.

Fly fishing SPB

North Carolina SPB Says can out compete SMB and LMB in some waters so maybe not recommended to put in with them in a pond????? Might be just the ticket for my old 1 acre pond that has some GSF in it. Not big enough BOW to grow many big LMB anyway, so maybe would support SPB and grow them to the 2-3# range????? Just thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble and often makes my head hurt).

Wikipedia info

Florida SPB Has some technical characteristics to ID them.

Virginia SPB Says most are a pound or less. Maybe not enough forage? Record is over 10 pounds.

How to tell the difference LMB and SPB

More ID tips SPB fight more like SMB, tend to go deep rather than to the surface according to this.

USGS with range and description

Crawfish bait is the way to go - numerous 4 pounders

New world record in 2014

Be careful putting in waters with SMB and LMB In certain conditions SPB can out compete other bass. Often need to remove smaller individuals so rest can become bigger. Sounds like same problem as LMB. Maybe would not have the problem of LMB doing away with SPB like they can SMB over time in a pond environment????

Enough!

Anyone have anything to say about SPB? No fish farms raise fingerlings that I know of or could find.

Edit: another newer thread on SB http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436488#Post436488

Edit: Thread about aggressive bass where the discussion turns to spotted bass. Agressive bass
Edit: thread on another forum with short discussion of spotted bass in farm ponds. One poster said LMB out competed the spots and the spots eventually died out. Another poster said SMB were stocked as the only bass and did well. Sounds like spots might be similar to SMB in that they have trouble competing with LMB Thread about spotted bass in farm ponds

Last edited by snrub; 03/31/18 12:36 PM.

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snrub #397077 01/09/15 07:08 PM
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Sounds like you need to punch another small pond in and stock with forage fish! Then next year get some spots......... grin


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #397112 01/09/15 09:23 PM
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I've got my eye on a wash area at the edge of a field near my old pond. I think I could get between a half acre and maybe up to a full acre pond out of it.

But I was kind of thinking RES/GSF hybrids in it.

Was thinking of putting some mean SPB in with Dave Davidson's favorite mean GSF in my old pond and let the sparks fly.

It appears on the maps that I could have them in Cow Creek that runs through my property. I've never owned a fishing license. May have to buy one and fish the creek and see if I can catch any. My son says he has caught spotted bass out of that creek, but I'm not entirely sure his fish ID capabilities are completely up to par. He said they were bass and looked different than LMB so that makes it a good chance. Maybe find out come spring.


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snrub #397113 01/09/15 10:04 PM
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You won't need to buy a fishing license to fish on your own property.


2011 five acre pond. LMB, SMB, HSB, SPB, BG, CNBG, HBG, RES, WM, CC, BCP, GC, FHM, GSH
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I've only done limited research of spotted bass with smallmouth and found the spotteds would tend to outcompete the smallies, overpopulate and stunt. Undesireable, obviously. Would imagine this could take place if on their own as well, but a smaller pond and aggressive management could certainly curtail this. Very interested in what experts would consider viable forage options for this scenario. Travis likes a sunfish abbreviated RBS (redbreasted sunfish?) in some instances with smallmouth. Maybe that's a start. Or maybe even just bluegill if you can manage them along with adult spotted bass.

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snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.

Last edited by Rainman; 01/09/15 11:22 PM.


Rainman #397132 01/10/15 09:15 AM
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Thanks for clarifying that. I thought I had read to that effect some place, and I definitely was going to check into that before I did anything.

Don't want that for sure.

Only other option is find someone who can commercially sell SPB as fingerlings. That is the best way anyway. Assured of disease free stock if it is from a reputable hatchery.

Thanks for that reminder. I would still like to know if they are actually in our creek anyway. Have an old neighbor that has told me several times that the creek had a good bass population when he fished it years ago. Don't know if he would even distinguish between a LMB and SPB.

Last creek fishing I done was probably when I was less than a teenager. Fishing license wasn't even a consideration for us back then when on private property, although it probably in reality was required.

Last edited by snrub; 01/10/15 09:17 AM.

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Omaha #397133 01/10/15 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Omaha
I've only done limited research of spotted bass with smallmouth and found the spotteds would tend to outcompete the smallies, overpopulate and stunt. Undesireable, obviously. Would imagine this could take place if on their own as well, but a smaller pond and aggressive management could certainly curtail this. Very interested in what experts would consider viable forage options for this scenario. Travis likes a sunfish abbreviated RBS (redbreasted sunfish?) in some instances with smallmouth. Maybe that's a start. Or maybe even just bluegill if you can manage them along with adult spotted bass.


I agree with your concerns. In my minds eye (with fuzzy vision common) I picture the SPB having the same issues as LMB as far as management. Like you said, the ability to overpopulate and stunt (requiring regular removal of the smaller individuals). So in that respect it seems to me they would be managed the same as LMB. LMB have the ability to over eat their BG forage base if there is not enough cover for the BG. Even then they will overpopulate and stunt (Have a pond like that on one of our landlords farms - lots of small skinny big mouth LMB). So I'm thinking that in some ways the SPB might be a better match for a trophy BG pond than even LMB. With a mouth half way in between the size of SMB and LMB, that limits the size of BG they could eat. Also with a maximum size of 10 pounds and a more common large size in the 4 pound range, they might be enough to control the BG to an adequate degree without over controlling them. This is all just speculation in my mind.

They are supposed to be hard fighters similar to SMB in that respect. That should go along good for a light tackle pond with trophy BG.

From what I have read, for a trophy BG pond a person needs lots of small/medium size LMB and remove the very large LMB. It would seem to me with the intermediate size of the mouth and body of the SPB they might be just the ticket as the perfect predator for trophy BG ponds. But I may just be dreaming.

Edit: Bruce Condello, your input on the possible desirability of SPB as a predator in a BG trophy pond would be appreciated. How about Tony Livingston? I know you guys maybe are not that familiar with the SPB, but doesn't the size and mouth size seem like a trophy BG pond desirable predator? Thinking outside the box here guys! grin

Last edited by snrub; 01/10/15 09:38 AM.

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snrub #397141 01/10/15 10:12 AM
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My initial concern would be that SPB would not be as effective in BG management as LMB, but if in your area you regularly see LMB overtake BG, I can understand the consideration for SPB.

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I Spotted a Bass, but it was dead!

OOPS!, Sorry, not the same thing blush wink

Rainman #397158 01/10/15 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rainman
snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.


Rex, theoretically speaking here.

Private property in Kansas. You catch Spots outta the creek. Stock them in an impondment, also on your property. They spawn. You remove the YOY and stock them into your pond.

Would the pond that the YOY were stocked in still be "public"?

Thoughts??


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Omaha #397164 01/10/15 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Omaha
My initial concern would be that SPB would not be as effective in BG management as LMB, but if in your area you regularly see LMB overtake BG, I can understand the consideration for SPB.


I'm not absolutely sure about LMB overtaking BG here. The old landlord pond I mentioned most likely had GSF as any forage fish. Doubt it was ever stocked with BG.

But I think the general consensus is that southern ponds have more of a problem of the LMB over running the forage base as opposed to northern ponds where excess BG can be the problem. Of course that would depend a lot on how much cover the BG had in either case. Someone correct me if this is an incorrect assumption.


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esshup #397165 01/10/15 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Originally Posted By: Rainman
snrub, I could be wrong, but wild caught fish in KS (even off your own part of heaven) put into a private impoundment could make your pond "waters of the state", and the fish will still be the state's property....requiring a license to fish your pond. Receipts must be kept to prove ownership of fish in all states I know of, or they are deemed to be property of the state.


Rex, theoretically speaking here.

Private property in Kansas. You catch Spots outta the creek. Stock them in an impondment, also on your property. They spawn. You remove the YOY and stock them into your pond.

Would the pond that the YOY were stocked in still be "public"?

Thoughts??


Good hypothetical question. The question that came to my mind is how do commercial fisheries get their original breeding fish? Maybe that is not a relevant question for major hatcheries today, but at some point in time did not the original fish have to come from the wild? Do fish farms ever supplement new genetics from wild collections? Just wondering.

Another hypothetical question that I would hope no "official" would ever pursue. But what if some idiot neighbor bucket stocks some fish unbeknownst to you from the creek? Are now those fish and subsequent spawn now "public fish"?

Probably no issues to be worried about, but the technicalities could get "interesting", in a not so pleasant way.


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snrub #397168 01/10/15 12:16 PM
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According to the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, in Illinois you would not need a license

"Owners or tenants (if they reside on the land) may fish in waters on or flowing over their lands without a license. This exemption does not apply to club and organizational lakes or lake developments. Guests must have a fishing license to fish the lake unless they meet any of the requirements exempting persons from needing a license - such as being under age 16, Illinois residents who are disabled or blind, or Illinois residents on leave from active duty in the Armed Forces."

Intersting to me is that, if I let a neighbor fish in my pond, he would need a license.


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If I understand Kansas laws correctly (and I may not), I can let anyone fish in my private pond (assuming all the fish in it are private fish) without a license. Fish purchased and placed in private water are considered no different than cattle or pigs in a pen. I can harvest them any way I want and let anyone help me I want without a fishing license.

But if I understand it correctly, for me or anyone on my property to throw a hook and line in the little seasonal creek that runs behind my pond dam or our main local creek that runs through our property, a fishing license is required because we are in "public" waters.

So if I ever have a Pond Boss get together at my place, you all should not need to purchase Kansas fishing license to fish my pond. But if the game warden comes and hauls you all off, I'll claim complete ignorance. laugh Which will not be far from the truth. crazy


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djnks #397210 01/10/15 08:17 PM
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Here in California they make you buy a license to fish even in your own pond for fish that you have stocked.they want money for everything.

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Originally Posted By: cb100
Here in California they make you buy a license to fish even in your own pond for fish that you have stocked.they want money for everything.


I guess they do that in a few other states as well. Kinda sucks!

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Nebraska is similar, here it is all about being connected to other bodies of water by inflow or outflow that the state has regulatory control over. If connected and fish that the state has control over end up in your creek or pond, then a fishing license is required, size and bag limits apply as well. Pond owners need to retain proof that all of fish the in the pond were purchased. There is also the argument that most bodies of water are connected by inflow or outflow during high water events, so there are very few truly private bodies of water that don't require a fishing license. Basically you need to be able to show receipts for each type of fish in your pond and reasonably show they couldn't swim in from somewhere else, otherwise a license is required and bag and size limits apply.



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Originally Posted By: snrub
Good hypothetical question. The question that came to my mind is how do commercial fisheries get their original breeding fish? Maybe that is not a relevant question for major hatcheries today, but at some point in time did not the original fish have to come from the wild? Do fish farms ever supplement new genetics from wild collections? Just wondering.

Another hypothetical question that I would hope no "official" would ever pursue. But what if some idiot neighbor bucket stocks some fish unbeknownst to you from the creek? Are now those fish and subsequent spawn now "public fish"?

Probably no issues to be worried about, but the technicalities could get "interesting", in a not so pleasant way.


If I recall correctly, a Nebraska aquaculture license allows for the collection seed stock from "public" waters. Not sure if that would be true in Kansas or not.

Yes, those would be "public fish" in the sense that a license is required and that bag and possession limits would apply. Land owners typically retain trespassing rights and don't have to let anyone fish.



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KS Statute 32-703: State ownership of wildlife. The ownership of and title to all wildlife, both resident and migratory, in the state, not held by private ownerships, legally acquired, shall be, and are hereby declared to be in the state.

If caught in a stream flowing through property, you may not need a license to catch it, but you will to sell it commercially. If stocked into a pond, the fish caught and all offspring are State property.



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In Missouri, no hunting or fishing license is needed to take fish or small game on property you own, reside on, or lease (corporations allow the privilege for only top officers). But, you need a "Landowner Tag" for deer and turkey (limits and state zone rules apply). You ALSO need and Federally required tags, stamps or permits for trout, waterfowl, migratory game birds, etc.

Further, if you acquire your fish from a state hatchery, (free), your waters and all fish are state property unless and until you kill all original fish stocked and then purchase and maintain a receipt listing the species and quantity of fish acquired from a private source. The state requires fishing take place on ANY state stocked BOW, but the state can NOT require you to allow people to trespass on your private property to fish.



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With some of the things I read, the guberment, represented by the EPA wants control of all waters, including our ponds. Not wanting to start anything here, just what I have herd, so I can see where a fishing license is just another step closer towards redistribution of wealth or control frown My mother always said I did not like being told what to do or not do. And did not care for authority. Her words tp me lol


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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The fishing lic I speak of here is the one that might be required to fish your own private waters and not the lic for fishing public water because I am all in for the license for public waters.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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When I lived in Arkansas, we needed a state license to fish or hunt our own property also



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Interesting article found about habitat enhancement for spotted bass. This has to do with streams, but has some interesting info about spotted bass.

Spotted Bass habitat enhancement PDF download


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