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#511279 - 09/08/19 12:04 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: RAH]
jpsdad Offline


Registered: 05/20/18
Posts: 328
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: RAH
Don't forget rocks, rubber, and an occasional bird:)


LOL. Indeed.

It would interesting to know the range of weights of the fish from which the stomach samples came. It should also be noted that the stomach samples were only 178 in number and that most (88%) contained a "high proportion of unidentifiable food, substrate, and detritus."

The sampling method of baiting with soybean cake might have skewed collections of CC <3 lbs.

To be sure, the success of CC as predators and the reliance on fish increases as they grow in size. It is not hard to imagine fish > 5lbs having much higher dependency on fish than this report shows.
Quote:
I think we are just coming at this from slightly different perspectives. I look at CC eating fish and crayfish as impacting other fish that are primarily predators (like LMB and SMB). The degree of competition that someone is concerned about may vary from person to person. I am reserving my 3rd pond for some blue catfish to hopefully partially control black crappie (along with fishing), but need a good forage base and more plant cover before adding either of these species. No CC anymore in my SMB or LMB ponds.


The proof is more in the eating and than in the pudding itself. These questions interest us all but up to now the appropriate combinations are not well understood. The topic of whether CC can crop BG sufficiently to grow BG at acceptable sizes has been a recurring question. I think the answer is not necessarily negative but when positive it may be highly contextual.

With regard to the blue catfish and crappie, I will certainly follow this experiment with interest and think it has good chance of success. Even if the crappie get a head start, the blues have the genetics and behavior to catch up. I would and I think many others would appreciate a thread on this BOW that chronicles your plan and progress.

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#511280 - 09/08/19 12:24 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: jpsdad]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4389
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
This new pond only has FHM and a few LCS so far, but not many plants. I have seen schools of very tiny fish, but I would not say they are anywhere near what I want before adding black crappie. Still need to wet a line in my YP/SMB pond and see how big the SMB have grown. Maybe will get out between morning and evening deer hunts next month. They say that catching SMB in cold water leads to better recovery after release. I know that the YP have spawned multiple times, but not sure about the 20 SMB that I added to this 1 acre pond, but they should be well fed. The one that I caught a year after stocking was bigger than I thought possible in that short time. That was the year before last so I might be in for some fun. Just put 6 lb test on my reel to be safe.

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#511290 - 09/08/19 08:50 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
FishyFishy Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 65
Loc: OH
All this is very interesting but do you think I still have more CC in the pond other than the two I see coming to the bluegill food? I guess the only way to be sure is to remove two CC and then see if anyone ever catches any ever again!
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#511306 - 09/09/19 07:05 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4389
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I think it is a far shot that a couple dozen CC just vanished in a couple weeks. Do you want to eliminate them from the pond?


Edited by RAH (09/09/19 07:06 AM)

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#511308 - 09/09/19 07:27 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
FishyFishy Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 65
Loc: OH
Not really. I planned on keeping one or two a year for the table for a few years. I have a really healthy population of big BG and RES and a good population of bass that I probably need to harvest some of the bigger ones. I have seen no negative effects of having big CC in the pond. They are a blast to catch and great table fare as my pond is very clean. I did not put in any structure that would aid in them being able to reproduce and avoid the bass. I have caught some of the CC on small lures when they were young and on small BG when the CC got bigger. If it turned out that all the CC were gone I would have no hesitation about putting in more, if I could find them in a stocking size big enough to avoid the biggest of the bass in the pond (There might be a couple that are getting to 15-17 inches) Mostly I was wondering if I just have two bold catfish and a bunch more that are submarine feeders. By the way, these two CC will come right up to the dock where the water is really clear and there are always a few smaller fish and YOY. The small fish are cautious when the CC come in but they seem to have no problems eluding the ponderous catfish. I will occasionally see a CC following a smaller BG but the BG are much faster and maneuverable. I think they mainly eat fish that are in distress. The LMB are a different story. You can watch platoons of them cruising the shoreline like a pack of sharks and in an hours fishing time you will easily see 8-10 shoreline explosions of small YOY fish leaping out of the water, up on the banks and the frantic floppings of LMB out for their evening meal. I love my pond. It is such an amazing success. I spend a lot of time down there just taking it all in.
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#511321 - 09/09/19 11:29 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4389
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Lost my CC in the BG/LMB pond to a winter-kill under snow-covered ice quite a few years back and elected not to add them back. Mine did not reproduce either. I really need to fish the pond for LMB to see what I have in there. I do have a healthy population of BG which my neighbor keeps in check by harvesting 50-60 per year. I have seen a few small LMB on occasion when I feed the BG (irregular schedule), but never saw them take food.

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#511336 - 09/09/19 03:21 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Funky Offline


Registered: 11/07/15
Posts: 96
Loc: Midland, Michigan
Just a comment on the CC. I put 25 in my half acre pond 4 years ago, thinking they would not spawn. You know, small pond, no structure for them as they need a closed end place. Well, now I have a few 30 inch 12-15 pound CC and a number classes of young. When I asked Bob Lusk he said that they will find a way if they want. I have a pond that is 100% clay, and when the water level goes down in the summer I have seen a few holes in the side of the pond. So, you just never know!
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half-acre pond, LMB, HBG, BG, GSH and CC ....goal is to
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#511342 - 09/09/19 05:19 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: Funky]
FishyFishy Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 65
Loc: OH
Interesting. I assumed that if they ever did breed the LMB would make short work of them. I have never seen a small one but dangit I can't find the big ones either!
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#511356 - 09/10/19 12:05 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 583
Loc: NW Kansas
I used a few 2-3lb'rs for control of waterdog (salamander eggs) and had 5 left going into this summer and guess what I'm finding in my fine mesh samples... Yep, yoy CC. Not many but they got'r done.
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#511368 - 09/10/19 05:46 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Clay N' Pray Offline


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 255
Loc: Caswell co NC
I'm suprised no "hybrid CC" are being sold. Seems like a Market exists.

I'm on year 3 of of a ladder stocking of CC, 25, 50, 50 in a .5 acre clay farm pond with very little to no structure. So far, no YOY that I have seen. It's not a fertile pond.
This fall I'm planning to harvest as many CC under 2lbs as I can.

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#511406 - 09/10/19 05:55 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: Clay N' Pray]
FishyFishy Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 65
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Clay N' Pray
I'm suprised no "hybrid CC" are being sold. Seems like a Market exists.

I'm on year 3 of of a ladder stocking of CC, 25, 50, 50 in a .5 acre clay farm pond with very little to no structure. So far, no YOY that I have seen. It's not a fertile pond.
This fall I'm planning to harvest as many CC under 2lbs as I can.
So you have nothing in there but CC? Snipe posted above that he was running a small mesh seine of some sort. That may be the only way to know for sure if we have CC breeding.
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#511415 - 09/10/19 10:40 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
DannyMac Offline


Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 116
Loc: Bexar county Texas
The hybrid blue - channels are too much blue cat. They bite good, but the skinning and fileting is a job.
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Dan McWhirter



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#511418 - 09/10/19 11:08 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
DannyMac Offline


Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 116
Loc: Bexar county Texas
I will say that my hybrid blues did not grow large, I suppose they are strictly predators and will not take feed. Meanwhile...the Channels...down to three it seems from feeding response...the one and only Hoover, a smaller but resourceful scooper, and the only catfish to survive from last year.
I have felt so lucky to have found this forum and the wisdom of its members.
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Dan McWhirter



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#511430 - 09/11/19 05:34 AM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Clay N' Pray Offline


Registered: 12/03/17
Posts: 255
Loc: Caswell co NC
Originally Posted By: FishyFishy
Originally Posted By: Clay N' Pray
I'm suprised no "hybrid CC" are being sold. Seems like a Market exists.

I'm on year 3 of of a ladder stocking of CC, 25, 50, 50 in a .5 acre clay farm pond with very little to no structure. So far, no YOY that I have seen. It's not a fertile pond.
This fall I'm planning to harvest as many CC under 2lbs as I can.
So you have nothing in there but CC? Snipe posted above that he was running a small mesh seine of some sort. That may be the only way to know for sure if we have CC breeding.


I have LMB, BG, RES and CC.
I see BG & LMB recruitment but zero CC fry after 3 years.

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#511469 - 09/11/19 07:08 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14026
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Generally, you won’t see catfish progeny. They go everywhere in a school and are easily picked off.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#511471 - 09/11/19 09:13 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
FishyFishy Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 65
Loc: OH
So are there any 8" CC out there for stocking? I think they would be safe from LMB but not from the great blue herons hat come visit often.
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#511477 - 09/11/19 10:04 PM Re: Another question about catfish [Re: FishyFishy]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12921
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Yes larger stocker CC are available 8", 10" 12" and larger. You just have to find a supplier or fish hauler depending on how many you want.
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