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#508773 - 07/11/19 08:37 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: canyoncreek]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1635
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
I also need some ideas on how to design the access hatch for easy emptying and re-introducing bait. Do you have the bait locked in a container and is it suspended at the top or is it thrown loosely in the cage?


I use a short sock or the end cut off a tube sock and a bread tie to put fish food in for bait. Dog food will add a oily film to your pond if you use it everyday for a few days. It has alot of animal fats in it.

My trap works well for culling panfish so the openings are tall and narrow. I suspect I could widen the center of the slot to accommodate catfish, but I have not used it for that. I tend to get alot of small YOY panfish along with crawdads if I put it at the shore, but when I hang it off the dock over 7 foot of water about 1 foot below the surface, I tend to get more 4" fish.

I made a trapdoor for the bait area out of a piece of plastic and a coffee can hinge. The opening for trapped fish access is a ferrule from a range fan hood and a small bucket lid. Both accesses are held in place by rubber bungee cords bolted to the mesh...




Attachments
Trap.jpg (562 downloads)



Edited by Quarter Acre (07/11/19 08:39 AM)
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#508775 - 07/11/19 08:51 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
DavidDunn Offline


Registered: 04/11/19
Posts: 24
Loc: Newton, IA
QA that is one of the best looking traps I have seen. Well done!!
_________________________
2.5 acres with LMB, RES, BG and CC

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#508780 - 07/11/19 09:40 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Mike Whatley]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
One trap is about 3ft deep the other about 4. I tried at 6ft and didn't catch many. Initially thought there weren't many in the main pond....not so lucky. I have yet to see a swarm though. Perhaps a swarm is caused by predators which I have few of?

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#508781 - 07/11/19 09:58 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: DavidDunn]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1635
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: DavidDunn
QA that is one of the best looking traps I have seen. Well done!!


Thanks David! I enjoyed making it.

One thing to add is that my catch rates are improved if the sock bait is changed everyday. The second day will still have plenty of mushy food in the sock, but I think the smell has faded away enough to reduce it's attractiveness. It still stinks to me (bad), but the fish must notice a difference.
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Fish on!,
Noel

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#508787 - 07/11/19 11:37 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Quarter Acre]
Augie Offline


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Boone County Missouri
That is a slick rig.

I like the wire loom covering the places that would otherwise make you bleed.

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#508788 - 07/11/19 12:05 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1635
Loc: West Central Missouri
The wire loom around the entrances may also hinder the catch and KEEP rate, but I did not want the fish to bleed either. I have seen some traps with the wires left gnarly at the entrance and facing inward to help keep the fish from exiting. So far, it catches fish, crawdads, and tadpoles.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#508797 - 07/11/19 03:58 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 247
Loc: Missouri
I haven't noticed any wounds from the wire ends. Wouldn't matter on the BH or GSF anyway. The by-catch being tossed back in is mostly 3-4" BG which I have a lot of. Only one LMB and one RES caught thus far.

HOWEVER, interesting note, a while back I tossed a couple traps out into ~7 foot deep water. Next morning I had dead BH and BG - presumably from lack of oxygen (I don't have aeration) . Evidently they will travel into low oxygen water for short periods.
_________________________

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#508798 - 07/11/19 04:11 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2156
Loc: West Michigan
QA, forgive my lack of a shrewd mechanical mind...

So what is the white plate thing sticking up? Is it on a spring hinge? What is a "coffee can hinge?"

The black rubber strap is a handle for carrying it or just to hold the bait door down? I think I see another metal handle sticking up to the far right of the top of the cage maybe that is for hanging it up to dry?


If the bait is in a sock then you aren't using visual clues just smell? I always thought if I used fish pellets or dog food or bread that it was the visual clues that drew the fish in. The bait enclosure does it go all the way down to the bottom of the cage?

Superb work!

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#508802 - 07/11/19 04:50 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: canyoncreek]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1635
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
So what is the white plate thing sticking up? Is it on a spring hinge? What is a "coffee can hinge?"


The white plate is a rectangular piece of plastic about 1/8" thick. It serves as the access door to the bait holding area (it is in the open position in the above photo). The coffee can hinge is just a plain hinge that I got out of my coffee can of miscellaneous hinges. I have coffee can bolts, nuts, screws, springs, caps, etc. LOL - sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
The black rubber strap is a handle for carrying it or just to hold the bait door down? I think I see another metal handle sticking up to the far right of the top of the cage maybe that is for hanging it up to dry?


The black rubber strap is part of a rubber bungee cord that has been cut to length and had holes punched in it so that it could be bolted to the cage. It serves as a holder to keep the bait door closed. The metal handle on the far right is to carry it by and wrap up the chain that I use to hang it in the water.

Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
If the bait is in a sock then you aren't using visual clues just smell? I always thought if I used fish pellets or dog food or bread that it was the visual clues that drew the fish in. The bait enclosure does it go all the way down to the bottom of the cage?


I have not used anything but a sock for the bait, so it's the smell that attracts the fish. I do have my eye open for something like an over sized hot tea infuser to use instead of the sock...the sock is not fun to clean out as I don't want to throw a mushy food filled sock in the trash.

Something that would let the food be visible and escape some might even work better, but I have not found the right junk to make that yet.

The bait enclosure goes from top to bottom. It's just a mesh tube fastened between the top and the bottom.



I watched this video before starting my build. I had to apply the zipties by hand. Gloves and sleeves would have kept some of my blood in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5DNd0ubSGE


Attachments
Trap 2.jpg (506 downloads)



Edited by Quarter Acre (07/11/19 04:56 PM)
Edit Reason: added video link
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#508804 - 07/11/19 05:35 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1217
Loc: Louisiana
That's a good looking trap Noel. I'm really surprised, with all that attention to detail, you didnt use black zip ties so they would hold up longer from being exposed to the elements.

I cut my hands up something crazy too. That rabbit wire is almost as bad as blackberries when you run your hand thru the wrong place.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#508807 - 07/11/19 06:22 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14175
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Overbuilt. Well done
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#508809 - 07/11/19 06:46 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 247
Loc: Missouri
Mike: I don't think color black proves zip ties are UV resistant - Harbor Freight black ties break within a year when in the sun. A person probably wants to buy ties that specifically state UV resistant for outdoor use. Utilitech ties at Lowes are good https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-800-Pack-8-in-Nylon-Cable-Ties/999971174

My first traps had the center bait enclosure out of the same 1/2" mesh. I had to go back and line them with window screen to keep the dog food from falling/floating out of it. Later ones were built with 1/4" mesh. I find the best trapping luck when the fish are able to get to some of the food,but not too fast. Otherwise they spend time trying to get out.
_________________________

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#508810 - 07/11/19 07:22 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Mike Whatley Offline


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 1217
Loc: Louisiana
I've never tried ties from Harbor Freight, but the ones I use from THD to brush in my duck blind had to be cut off after a couple seasons. They didnt have any description regarding outdoor use.

I use a plastic orange juice bottle with a bunch of holes punched in it and fill it with either dry dog food or a handful of Aquamax. Both seem to work well and when I'm done I can just dump it out and let it dry for the next time I need it.
_________________________
.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!

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#508812 - 07/11/19 08:26 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1635
Loc: West Central Missouri
My zip ties were of the coffee can variety, but they have held up well under the hood of my old Ford, will see how they hold up in the pond.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510791 - 08/26/19 06:32 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
Just an update. Almost 1500 BH to date and well over 1000 more that died when the forage pond dried up... Kind of burned out and took a break the last few days. 2 traps are soaking now. I've been using Sportsman's Choice fish food for over a month. Cheaper than the cheapest dog food. Old sock w holes poked in them so that food can come out. Half gallon milk jug top and bottom to limit the freeloaders.
Someone said having plenty of food available is helpful so they dont try to escape. I believe it is key. I move the traps around some but generally keep 3 close to each other. My record is 113 in one day.


Attachments
Screenshot_20190826-172230_Gallery.jpg (103 downloads)
Screenshot_20190826-172004_Gallery.jpg (88 downloads)

_________________________
How are you going to know unless you try!

NW TX 1.5 ac main pond fed from 1100ac watershed going through 2 2+ac sediment ponds
900BG, 200RES, 200HBG, 100CC and 23# FHM....BH, GSF GSH, LMB & ???
I subscribe!

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#510803 - 08/27/19 07:15 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 247
Loc: Missouri
Great work shortcut! Was there more than one size/year class of BH? Hopefully your LMB can take over the job of controlling BH. You do have LMB right? I don't see them listed in your signature.
_________________________

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#510808 - 08/27/19 12:09 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
I've removed 48 8-12in BH so far. The YOY BH are growing, of course and there are multiple age classes. GSF from YOY to 6in. LMB YOY to 6in. GSH also washed in and I caught about 200 during feeding with a cast net. They were released. I've caught LMB, GSF and HBG that are feeding on them.
The FHM population is being decimated so I have been removing all LMB and large GSF until I stock advanced size LMB this fall.
The water level dropped below the known spawning beds. Appeared to be GSF beds.
I don't believe my BG have spawned yet but I am catching some pretty ones in the traps and occasionally on RR.
The pond owners up stream are supposedly unwilling to nuke their mut ponds.
30 3-6in BH in 2 traps yesterday. They are always very fat in the traps.
_________________________
How are you going to know unless you try!

NW TX 1.5 ac main pond fed from 1100ac watershed going through 2 2+ac sediment ponds
900BG, 200RES, 200HBG, 100CC and 23# FHM....BH, GSF GSH, LMB & ???
I subscribe!

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#510814 - 08/27/19 03:38 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: ShortCut]
Augie Offline


Registered: 10/29/18
Posts: 241
Loc: Boone County Missouri
I didn't much like having BH in my pond, but I miss having BH.
Those things are the best flathead bait there is.

I may throw some in my forage pond when I get it finished.

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#513215 - 10/24/19 02:37 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
Just looking for your advice and thoughts on my situation. To recap, 1st year pond stocked with pan fish, CC and FHM. BH, LMB, GSF and GSH washed in. I've removed 1700 YOY BH, 50 adult BH and 50 YOY LMB. I planned on stocking 8in LMB now but the supplier is only able to get 14-16in LMB. My goal is to have large pan fish. I do not want advanced size LMB to eat the 1yr old BG, HBG OR RES.
My question is: When the BH spawn next year do you think the pan fish, CC and remaining unknown LMB can "control" their numbers, should I proactively stock any YOY or other size LMB or just wait and see?
Any and all options or opinions are welcome!!
_________________________
How are you going to know unless you try!

NW TX 1.5 ac main pond fed from 1100ac watershed going through 2 2+ac sediment ponds
900BG, 200RES, 200HBG, 100CC and 23# FHM....BH, GSF GSH, LMB & ???
I subscribe!

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#513219 - 10/24/19 04:09 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
jludwig Offline


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1549
Loc: Central Kansas
How large are your CC and LMB now?

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#513223 - 10/24/19 04:26 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
The CC are 15in. I've caught LMB 4-7in, just do not know how many are in there.
In hindsight, yes I should not have removed any LMB. Thought I was protecting my BG spawn.
My hope is for the existing pan fish to eat all the newly hatched fry and CC to eat any remaining YOY in 2020.
Hopefully I've caught most of the BH in there now, hopefully...
A recent CC.


Attachments
Screenshot_20191024-152517_Gallery.jpg (139 downloads)



Edited by ShortCut (10/24/19 04:42 PM)

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#513234 - 10/24/19 07:09 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14175
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Lusk says, after the first or second year, start culling young of year bass.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#513235 - 10/24/19 07:14 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14175
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Shortcut, I use paint strainers as a bag to hold bait in a trap. I generally bait with the same pellets that I feed.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#513239 - 10/24/19 08:04 PM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
ShortCut Offline


Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 122
Loc: Morton Valley, TX
Thanks Dave. Do you think my existing fish, stocked and the LMB that washed in, are enough to control next year's YOY BH? I'd really like to not trap BH almost every day next summer!
_________________________
How are you going to know unless you try!

NW TX 1.5 ac main pond fed from 1100ac watershed going through 2 2+ac sediment ponds
900BG, 200RES, 200HBG, 100CC and 23# FHM....BH, GSF GSH, LMB & ???
I subscribe!

Top
#513256 - 10/25/19 05:52 AM Re: Mudcat Problem [Re: Sam G]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14175
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
If we can assume(yeah, I know) that bullhead fry conduct themselves like CC, they should. CC fry go everywhere in a slow swimming school and are easy picking for larger predators. And, in a pond, everything larger is a predator without respect to species.

It is very unusual for CC to be a self sustaining species due to predation. Even when I've stocked only CC, they have never pulled off a spawn. They are essentially a put and take fish. In the presence of bass of any size, small cats are groceries.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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