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#510650 - 08/22/19 04:01 PM New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
I have a recently finished 2.2 acre pond.
- 30% 18-22í deep - some large rock reefs
- 40% 10-12í deep
- rest slopped sides 3-1, big beach area, pebbled area next to beach , 60íx80í refuge area 2-5í deep with rocks logs and pebbles

My plan is to have a forage pond.

My main goal is to have a good fishing pond catching good sized WE, SMB, HSB, and have yellow perch as forage and a bonus catch for table. Hoping to Manage perch to be able to get a few 12Ē+ here and there. Also considering RES.

I have currently 6í of water in the deep area and in July added a small amount of FHMís not thinking they would make it. Well yesterday I walked the bank and saw a decent amount of fry and slightly larger FHMís shooting around. Wish I wouldíve added more.

I was wondering a few things.

1. Can I stock more minnows this weekend and maybe get some last chance breeding before end of August early September??
2. Possible to stock feed trained YP in spring and feed to preserve minnow population enough to have them breed next summer? If not I may do the forage pond in early spring.
3. Can I stock YP,WE,and SMB in any combination next spring if any at all??

Iíll post pics of pond later.

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#510724 - 08/24/19 09:58 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12921
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Your plan is predator too 'heavy' and forage fish too 'light'. For having 'acceptable' numbers of WE, HSB, and the reproducing SMB you won't have enough prey forage fish to get good growth of your small fish eating predators. As the WE & SMB approach and exceed 16" they will start eating more of the 5" and 6" YP that will curtail YP reproduction. Very likely the WE and SMB will not eat pellets which means live foods have to feed all years classes of WE & SMB. Feeding the HSB pellets will help their growth. YP are prolific but do not produce enough recruits to feed those 3 types of predators unless the total number of predators are uncommonly low such as a total of 20 maybe 25 per acre. Remember the adult YP also prefer to eat small 1"-2" fish in their diet further strongly reducing the numbers of minnows that enter the reproduction size. Young YOY and juvenile SMB will also be eating 1"-3" fish. Forage pond will definitely be needed to supplement the forage numbers. Consider also using golden shiner, if available spotfin shiner, and lots of crayfish. RES are "weak" spawners and produce low limited numbers of offspring. Do not count on them for much forage benefit. Remember each 10 lbs of forage produces around 1 lb of predator. Each adult predator can easily eat 10 lbs of forage foods per year. For 25 one lb+ predators this amounts to 250 pounds of forage fish consumed each year. IMO keep predator numbers / acre low and increase predator numbers per acre only when forage numbers of the appropriate all mixed sizes appear to be too low / few to maintain continued predator growth. Predator body plumpness in terms of relative weight (RW) also indicates predator growth, good numbers of adequate forage, and body condition. Prey fish of various sizes should always be apparently obvious to observers for a good predator fishery.

To get a better estimate of predator density one should have a fairly good estimate of the number and or pounds of forage fish that are likely to be added to the pond from for forage fish pond.


Edited by Bill Cody (08/25/19 02:58 PM)
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#510829 - 08/27/19 06:10 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Thanks bill Iíll keep reading up.

It was suggested to me by a fish hatchery to use blue gill as additional main forage source.

I know their shape and some other reasons they were not suggested for my choice of pond setup.

I havenít gone back to re read those posts yet. Im trying to refresh myself.

We are also considering tilapia as a forage source and possibly farming them internally in our heated barn next to the pond.

I want to add as much forage as I can.

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#510884 - 08/28/19 08:15 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12921
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I would stay away from initially using BG in your planned stocking. One way to help maintain fish growth with fewer forages is buy SMB that are pellet trained and you will get excellent growth from them and HSB with reduced forage amounts. Also keep your WE numbers / acre reduced until you see when you have excess forage then add a few more WE per acre. It is better to ladder stock them when using walleye. Add a few each year or two so you have several year classes preying on different sizes of forage fish as a more predator prey balanced system.


Edited by Bill Cody (08/29/19 11:56 AM)
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#510916 - 08/29/19 03:49 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Do you have a suggestion for initial YP and RES numbers? Thinking 100 RES and ??? Of feed trained YP that could breed in spring.

Should I add small predators now Or wait till YP have recruited? Add maybe 25 WE 25 SMB and 20 HSB to start. Too many?

Do you know of any feed trained SMB in Ohio?

My plan is to creek locate spotfins (with forage pond) and Crays (later). Possibly adding indoor tilapia farm.

Sorry for all the questions. Just want to be sure.

Thanks for your help.

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#510919 - 08/29/19 05:30 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12921
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Since RES do not produce very many offspring you could add 200 this early fall so they might spawn for you in 2020. Do not know of any current growers of pellet trained SMB. There are some farms in eastern OH that grow SMB. Do your homework and also check with Ohio Aquaculture group. I suggest waiting until the YP have spawned before adding predators. You should build a good forage base prior to predators. SMB can be hard to locate. Note your pellet raised YP might be skewed towards females if you only buy one size so buy mixed sizes when getting them to insure some smaller males in the group. Stock YP at 150-250/ac if eating pellets.

I would first focus on HSB and SMB both 20-25/ac and then keep WE as bonus fish low density 5-7/acre until you see how the forage fish handle the predation pressure. After 4-5 years when the SMB have spawned, you will then get a good estimate of numbers of forage fish to predator balance. Let body condition and growth of the predators be your guide.


Edited by Bill Cody (08/29/19 05:30 PM)
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#510975 - 08/30/19 08:22 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
thanks bill. im going to use the guy you gave me a few years ago when I almost started another pond (land deal went bad).

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#511075 - 09/03/19 06:40 AM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
I just netted crayfish, shiners, and CCS from a local creek yesterday.


With no FA and it being a new pond, would it be ok to add creek chubsuckers and crays?

Iíll send photos of crays today to confirm species but they look to be northern crays

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#511108 - 09/03/19 07:06 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio


Edited by Jared015 (09/04/19 08:47 PM)

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#511110 - 09/03/19 07:43 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
roundy Online   content


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 215
Loc: Beardstown, Illinois
I donít know what the old hands will tell you but, now isnít the time to get cheap. Get the best quality fish stock you can find or get. Saving a few hundred dollars on a 2 acre pond projects cost isnít a good trade in my opinion. You want a great pond, otherwise you wouldnít be here. Not many times Iíve spent more than i wanted too and regretted it, But Iíve regretted cheating out almost everytime.
_________________________
2 acres - FHM, GSH, PSC, RES, HBG, BG, LMB and YP
1 acre - filling with FMH, GSH, and PSC till fall 2020, then SMB and YP
I subscribe to PBM

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#511111 - 09/03/19 08:05 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Donít plan on stocking anything from creek except crays and chubsuckers.

I donít plan on cheaping out anything else.

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#511112 - 09/03/19 08:06 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Really just wondering if I ID these correctly and had fun collecting and releasing w my sons.

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#511115 - 09/03/19 09:09 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
roundy Online   content


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 215
Loc: Beardstown, Illinois
Sorry if I came off a bit too salty, not my intent. Just very easy to have a stocking mishap and theyíre in, itís too late. Personal experience: i had my son pickup fish for me and stock them. Fish guy gave him LMB instead of HBG. I told son to take a pic of them before releasing in pond, he did but future daughter in law released them before I could look at pics. I would have caught mistake, but was too cheap to take a day off to do it myself. $30,000 pond project took a right turn into the ditch because I thought it would be easier this way.

My advise would be better stated as: measure twice cut once. Some pond actions are costly or very hard to undo. Wrong fish is one of them.
_________________________
2 acres - FHM, GSH, PSC, RES, HBG, BG, LMB and YP
1 acre - filling with FMH, GSH, and PSC till fall 2020, then SMB and YP
I subscribe to PBM

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#511117 - 09/03/19 09:24 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2067
Loc: West Michigan
Saw a fish with a red ear tab in one of the last pictures you posted, was that native in the creek? was that a pumkinseed, longear or redear sunfish?

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#511133 - 09/04/19 10:39 AM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: roundy]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Iím not upset. I agree with you. Sorry I usually write quick responses. Text can easily be misconstrued

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#511134 - 09/04/19 10:42 AM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: canyoncreek]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Saw a fish with a red ear tab in one of the last pictures you posted, was that native in the creek? was that a pumkinseed, longear or redear sunfish?


Yes native

Not 100% sure on type. Iíll try and look it up.

My plan is to stock RES from hatchery and not add any other Gill or sunfish.

Iíll clean up that post a bit and label photos. I would like to ID the suckers.

Editt: above post with photos updated.


Edited by Jared015 (09/04/19 10:55 AM)

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#511135 - 09/04/19 12:08 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
For the sunfish pics

# 1 is a GSF
#2 is likely a RES
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#511144 - 09/04/19 03:11 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2067
Loc: West Michigan
Someone please chime in on the fish ID, especially the suckers. one of the pictures shows darker 'mesh' color on the side of the fish, it may be lighting but that looks different.

Jared, the fish with the red ear tab that I'm curious about the ID is actually in one of the sucker pictures, in your organized post above it is the 4th one down under 'suckers'. You might want to add that same link to the section called 'sunfish' too since I was curious if that was a RES or something else.

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#511145 - 09/04/19 03:21 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: canyoncreek]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2788
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Canyon
I think that is a RES

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#511152 - 09/04/19 08:46 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: canyoncreek]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek


Jared, the fish with the red ear tab that I'm curious about the ID is actually in one of the sucker pictures, in your organized post above it is the 4th one down under 'suckers'. You might want to add that same link to the section called 'sunfish' too since I was curious if that was a RES or something else.



I will add that to the sunfish as well... looks like a RES...

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#511153 - 09/04/19 08:51 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: ewest]
Jared015 Offline


Registered: 01/16/17
Posts: 43
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: ewest
For the sunfish pics

# 1 is a GSF
#2 is likely a RES


agree, spots look like RES. don't know if any other sunfish has those type of spots.

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#511154 - 09/04/19 09:21 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2067
Loc: West Michigan
lighter 'orange' ear tabs can mean a RES or some sunfish that hybridized with RES to mute the coloring so I was checking on that. Also are RES native in creeks in OH? that would be awesome if that is true.

In MI the only native fish with a bit of orange on the ear tab would end up being a pumpkinseed or a PS hybrid. There is supposed to be established RES populations in a few lakes in SW MI but it doesn't seem that often that they are caught. The pumpkinseeds are common in the northern MI lakes but would only be found in a lake/pond and not in moving water in a creek.

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#511159 - 09/04/19 11:25 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 583
Loc: NW Kansas
Hey guys, don't want to be a party pooper here, but Crayfish pic #5 is MOST definitely an invasive RUSTY CRAW!!! Black bands above orange on claws.
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#511176 - 09/05/19 11:26 AM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 2067
Loc: West Michigan
rusty crayfish in the creek nearby is not totally unexpected
Having a rusty crayfish source to put in your pond, a bad thing?
I've never heard that they taste bad to the LMB or SMB and where rusty crayfish are present the bass population doesn't mind at all from what I've been reading about in MI

The downside would be if you had your heart set on having a very specific type of crayfish in your pond and found out that the rusty variety is outcompeting the one you had your heart set on?

I'm not a rusty crayfish ID whiz, the rusty variety in MI are easiest to identify based on the rust colored round circle on the thorax and I didn't see that clearly in these pictures

crayfish of any type fill the bill fine for a forage source for larger fish. That was the goal, yes?

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#511182 - 09/05/19 12:27 PM Re: New 2.2 acre pond walleye perch stockinh [Re: Jared015]
Snipe Online   content


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 583
Loc: NW Kansas
The rusty thorax is present on several varieties. Rusty Craws will run everything else out in a closed environment. Only my opinion here but my choice would have been to not stock them in a closed system.
I guess it's just my concern..
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