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#503926 - 04/03/19 06:08 PM How my LMB look to you?
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Finally, after years of reading the forum, so much effort, time and money put into managing the pond to try to have a healthy and balanced LMB population, it seems to me that things are starting to go in the right direction.
Probably not the right time to take the weights of the LMB, being many of them full of eggs, but I wanted however to start to get an idea of numbers and dimensions after the winter and so I took advantage of some free time from work to try to catch some and measure them.
I have to admit that I was surprised by the number of LMB that I caught in such a short time and from their good-looking appearance (apart from some old scars caused by last year's cormorant pecks).
In the album https://photos.app.goo.gl/PLW8YZFUPGhH12HYA you can see all the bass caught (except those up to 10" which I almost never photographed). On 2 occasions I also measured and weighed them to try to compare them with relative weights. Unfortunately there is no relative weight chart in Italy, so I tried to compare them with the calculator I found on the forum, although I don't know if it's correct for my zone.
However the results are the following:

DAY 1
Lenght Weight RW
10" 0.50 100%
14" 1.32 90%
11" 0.60 88%
11" 0.85 125%
14" 1.68 114%
14" 1.85 126%
15" 1.98 108%
16" 2.42 107%
11" 0.45 66% (culled)
11" 0.60 88%
11" 0.62 91%
15" 1.90 104%

DAY 2
Lenght Weight RW
10" 0.39 77%
10" 0.46 92%
17" 2.40 88%
11" 0.57 84%
16" 2.00 89%
16" 2.08 92%
15" 1.54 84%
11" 0.83 121%
16" 1.94 86%
10" 0.44 88%
16" 1.98 88%
15" 1.86 102%
14" 1.58 107%
11" 0.65 95%
14" 1.57 106%
10" 0.54 107%
17" 2.38 87%
12" 0.91 102%
10" 0.47 94%
11" 0.74 109%
11" 0.79 116%

What do you think about? It seems to me that the smallest and the biggest don't have enough prey suitable for them.
In march I've found a fishery that have "scardole" (Scardinius erythrophthalmus), that are known here as a very good forage fish for LMB, big enough to not be eaten by bass. They reproduce a lot and are similar to your gizzar shad. I've stocked about 65 pounds and they was doing their first reproduction just yesterday.
Also I will stock monthly, starting from tomorrow, about 10 pounds of "pseudorasbora", a fish similar to your FHM.
I am open to all your considerations and suggestions.
Thank you
_________________________
Filippo

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#503929 - 04/03/19 06:34 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
DrLuke Offline


Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 437
Loc: Grinnell, IA
Filippo,first of all, nice work!! The pictures were really nice, and allows me and others on the forum to train our eyes to what LMB that are doing well look like (and then can see the WR charts as well). So thank you for sharing that data!
I don't have anything useful to add regarding forage vs WR in your larger LMB. I am sure one of the pros might chime in or maybe Bob Lusk. There does seem to be a small drop in the WR of the larger LMB.
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The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute. The man who does not ask, is a fool for life.
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#503930 - 04/03/19 08:53 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5882
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Well done! Nice looking LMB!
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#503950 - 04/04/19 11:48 AM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
Well done !!!

It may help you to graph the RW fish as it makes it easier to see and identify problems and watch the slope change as well. That in turn will help you make changes in management ( harvest , feeding , and forage stocking etc.) decisions.





Attachments
170FranksRWchart.jpg (626 downloads)



Edited by ewest (04/04/19 12:00 PM)
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#503957 - 04/04/19 02:10 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
Theo Gallus Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12461
Loc: Central Ohio
There are 3 or 4 bass in the pictures that, if they came out of my pond, I would say have been the victim of a near miss from a Great Blue Heron.

Do you have a fish stabbing bird in Italy in the same ecological niche?
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"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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#503977 - 04/04/19 07:56 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
Bob Lusk Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 3145
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas
Here's what I see...
Your 14-17" bass are primarily females, but a few are males. They show signs of being in the middle of their spawn, with the less-heavy in that size class post-spawn, those greater 90 Wr are still with eggs.

The thinnest fish in that size class are probably males.

The 10-12" fish are mostly underweight males, most likely on the nests for the last few weeks and not eating much. My advice is to cull any bass 88% or smaller. They are either males or under-performing females that don't stand much chance to regain and grow to their potential.
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Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...

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#504020 - 04/05/19 05:38 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Thanks to all and especially to the pond guru Mr Lusk for your valuable comments and advice. Very appreciated.

@ ewest very interesting your graph. Which software did you use to create it?

@ Theo Gallus unfortunately we have here herons and cormorants in abundance and absolutely protected. I'm not sure but I think those old scars have been made by cormorants.
http://www.leccotoday.it/video/video-cormorano.html
In the video you can see how cormorant use its beak to keep and turn the fish, probably causing that kind of scars.

@ Bob Lusk I am really happy that you have intervened with your great experience.
All is clear, I'd just like to ask you some clarifications, if possible:
- is it correct to record the measurements throughout the year or is it better to do them only in certain periods?
- can I start culling right away or it's better to wait the end of the spawn?
- do I keep the limit of 88% valid for the whole year or is it only valid now that they are in the middle of the spawn?
_________________________
Filippo

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#504115 - 04/08/19 03:13 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
Bob and others have the software - you just put in the data, fish and year.
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#504151 - 04/09/19 09:10 AM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ewest]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: ewest
Bob and others have the software - you just put in the data, fish and year.


Ok, I thought it was a commercial software like Excel or Calc.
Thanks ewest
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Filippo

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#504158 - 04/09/19 02:05 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
It is in excel. Sending an email.
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#504207 - 04/10/19 05:12 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Today I managed to fish a couple of hours, exactly a week after the last time.
As soon as I got to the pond I immediately noticed something different than a week ago. There were dozens of 6" to 10" LMB almost everywhere just below the water surface hunting.
The other strange thing is that in 2 hours I only caught 5 11" and 1 14" LMB.
I don't understand where the bigger ones are gone. Maybe spawning?
However, talking about relative weights and data, I also noticed that so far I have fished so many LMB of all sizes between 10 and 17 inches except for those at 13".
I also noticed that only the LMB under 10", and not all, come to feeder. Even the 12" ones that I stocked last fall and that were pellets trained are no more coming after winter stop.
Does this also happen to you or do they all come to feed pellets?
_________________________
Filippo

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#510516 - 08/19/19 03:06 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Hello everyone
After the holidays I went back to fishing in my pond.
I think I can say that I am satisfied because the bass caught all seem to be in good health and perfect shape.
Following the advice received on this forum I think it's starting to give the desired results.
From April I'm culling all the bass under 14", I am supplemental feeding with 42% protein pellets, the "scardole" have abundantly spawned, 2 times a week I'm stocking about 20 pounds of craws and once a month 30 pounds of minnows and PS.
Meanwhile I've added some artificial habitats and put some branches for forage fry.
Since I can't add aeration I've created a sort of water circulation to increase DO, to move the water and to reduce organic waste load.
At this link you can see the LMB https://photos.app.goo.gl/TrAUDBGtKAaYr7pHA.
Unfortunately I broke the scale and couldn't weigh them and calculate the RW.
What do you think?
Thank you


Edited by ItalyBASS (08/20/19 04:09 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot to write about water circulation system
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Filippo

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#510518 - 08/19/19 04:13 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
Zep Online   content
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3322
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Looking good Filippo!

I guess the birds didn't get all of our fish.
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Fishing has never been about the fish....


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#510545 - 08/20/19 01:48 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
Progress is good. Harvest those that don't look the best.
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#510553 - 08/20/19 03:52 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: Zep]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Hi Zep!
Monofilament web did its job. Not a single cormorant this year.
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Filippo

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#510555 - 08/20/19 04:06 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ewest]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Sure Ewest. I've culled 6 today too.
I think I've removed about 50 pounds of bass until now in my 1 ac pond.
Should I stop or should I continue?
_________________________
Filippo

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#510560 - 08/20/19 05:26 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14026
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Well done Flippo. Once bass are established, most of us cull every year.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#510600 - 08/21/19 01:43 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ewest Online   content
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19948
Loc: Miss.
Continue and watch RW and noticeable changes in LMB condition (fatter). Then like Dave said cull as needed to maintain LMB condition.
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#510602 - 08/21/19 02:35 PM Re: How my LMB look to you? [Re: ItalyBASS]
ItalyBASS Offline


Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 127
Loc: Italy
Ok
Thank you all
_________________________
Filippo

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