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#508907 - 07/15/19 11:06 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
"One question...do my test results indicate any information regrading the pond's nutrient level???"

In all honesty, I do not know? Your test results are confusing but it is a very small sample size so it cannot be definitively discerned. Nitrates should peak in the morning and ammonia in the evening. It seems like your pond is adequately cycling but once again, the sample size is too small and your test do not conclusively show that.

Phosphorous could be an issue but again, your sample size is too small and the parameters (zero to 0.25) not definitive. Phosphorous in a perfect water body would be between 0.02 and 0.1mg/l, depending. This allows for healthy plant growth but not excessive for algae blooms.

I think you are doing everything you can do. Your hyacinth farming and aeration should have a positive effect on your nutrient levels. As long as your DO levels remain sustainable, above 4, preferably 6ppm, I think you'll see reduced nutrient levels eventually, hopefully.
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#509012 - 07/17/19 08:26 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Thanks Joey for sticking with the thread. I appreciate your attention and comments. The "Zero to 0.25ppm" readings are because my API kit uses colors to determine the level of the test and a few times the cresults were between colors. Therefore, I had to record that it was just somewhere between to the two levels on the chart.

On a side note the oil-like and green-to-brown scums have all but disappeared, water turbidity has stayed the same, & fish are feeding well again (partially because I have held off feeding them for 4 days until the scum ran its course). I'll check the parameters again this weekend.

I have been running the aeration 24/7 (temps 80 @ bottom to 84 @ top), but a heat wave is upon us and I suspect I will have to cut back today or tomorrow. I am surprised that moving the diffusers to 3' instead of 2' off the bottom and running 24/7 has done nothing for clarity.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#509061 - 07/18/19 07:38 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
I would be curious the percent of phosphorous in your fish food. Most list it on the labeling somewhere.

Also, try testing your watershed before it reaches your pond. Considering your watershed is pasture (cattle?) they can be a major source of nitrogen and phosphorous. Best if the test is from just after the pasture area.

https://www.epa.gov/nutrient-policy-data/estimated-animal-agriculture-nitrogen-and-phosphorus-manure

The best way to prevent turbidity from entering your pond through the watershed is to slow the water down.
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#509068 - 07/18/19 08:59 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Optimal Bluegill Feed: Phosphorous - not less than 0.75%

I will certainly test my watershed runoff. It is used for cattle and bailing hay. But, It may be a while before the water flows in again...dry season and all. I'll anticipate the next gully washer.

There is the remnants of a settling pond about 60 feet before the entrance that does some slowing, but every now and again it gets full and a big rain will cause the captured sticks and leaves to flush into the pond. I thought I had over 20 acres of watershed, but recently re-evaluated to find it more like 14 acres. When fast heavy rains happen, the 15" overflow pipe gets overtaken and has run for a couple days before settling to a trickle. The last time it went over the dam was about 5 years ago.

Thanks again Joey! I had not thought about testing the water coming in.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#509071 - 07/18/19 10:03 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
I have about a 70-90 acre watershed that originates in croplands, winds through forested land, then an Amish horse/cattle pasture and along the road AROUND my pond. It meets up with my pond spillway and then exits my property where my neighbor has two 4' culverts. Before I slowed the water flow, he claimed about every 3-5 years, it washed out his driveway despite the huge culverts.

Since my pond is nutrient deficient, I tap off the top of watershed flow with about 200 feet of drainpipe to my pond. I slow the water with cattails and rip rap in formation like this remedial example:

----/--------/-

--------\------

The bummer about spillway and overflow pipes is, they drain off the least turbid water which is at the top of a water column.

I am a firm believer in, all the issues nature creates, nature corrects. I only attempt to expedite the process since nature is more patient than I am.


Edited by Joey Quarry (07/18/19 10:09 AM)
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2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#509759 - 08/04/19 02:39 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Yesterday's readings (Aeration has been running 24/7 since 7/13)...

Time - 8am in BOLD , 12pm in RED, 7pm in GREEN

Ambient Temps - 72 F, 82 F, 83 F

Secchi Disk Reading - 12", 13", 12"

Water temps - Top to Bottom 79 F, Bottom 79 F - Top 81 F, Bottom 81 F - Top 82

DO - 5.6 ppm, 5.6 ppm, 6.8 ppm

TDS - 56 ppm, 60 ppm, 60 ppm

pH - 6.9, 6.6, 6.9

Ammonia - Slightly over Zero ppm, Slightly over Zero, Zero

Nitrates - 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm

Phosphates - 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm

A oily looking light green surface film showed up late in the evening and was still present this morning. It was streak-ish in nature compared to the clouds of oil-like film from 7/10. I suspect the streaks were from the 24/7 aeration where as the aeration was only running at night when the 7/10 film appeared. What's next? I'll have to wait and see.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#509767 - 08/04/19 03:51 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
Those are your best overall measurements since you started this thread. The DO is the most impressive improvement. Not sure what your oil-like film is, maybe something died in your pond or along the watershed? No clue...

Is it safe to assume it has been dry around you lately? If that is the case, then you know your watershed might be the issue?
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#509768 - 08/04/19 04:22 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
wbuffetjr Online   content


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 1064
Loc: in the mountains
QA - FWIW - I have a very similar, if not the same, bubbly film on my pond every morning. Once the wind gets started it seems to clear it up. I asked what it was way back and someone told me proteins in the water.
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#509782 - 08/05/19 08:31 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Joey Quarry]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: Joey Quarry
Those are your best overall measurements since you started this thread. The DO is the most impressive improvement. Not sure what your oil-like film is, maybe something died in your pond or along the watershed? No clue...

Is it safe to assume it has been dry around you lately? If that is the case, then you know your watershed might be the issue?


I have only had minimal inflow since the last readings and, I think you are on to something suspecting the watershed. I was not able to test the inflow because it came overnight and by the time I could get to the pond the inflow had stopped. I estimate that 2/3rds of my 15 acre watershed gets fertilized for hay with some cattle crazing. I can't wait to catch some inflow for testing...Time will tell.

I have questioned the 6.8 DO reading. It was late in the day and I may have written it down wrong. That big of a jump seems unlikely, but the DO levels in the 5 plus range is better at any rate.

I also thought it odd that my pH dipped midday. Shouldn't it peak midday?

Originally Posted By: wbuffetjr
QA - FWIW - I have a very similar, if not the same, bubbly film on my pond every morning. Once the wind gets started it seems to clear it up. I asked what it was way back and someone told me proteins in the water.


My films/bubbles act the same way with regards to any wind action. A few calm days at the pond and it gets worse, then some rain and/or wind and it's gone. I suspect the oily aspect is more botanic in nature, (meaning algae blooms), but there could be some organics in play.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510353 - 08/16/19 08:24 AM DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I did a quick DO and pH check at the pond last night to find that the DO and pH were 10.7 ppm and 7.9 at 6 inches deep, but differed (what I considered) greatly only 2 feet lower...4.0ppm and 6.7.

My aeration has been running at night (midnight to 8am) for the last week.

Is this normal? When my aeration was running 24/7, the DO differed some (maybe 1ppm), pH differed very little.

If you recall, my Do levels hung around the low end (4 to 6) and pH barely moved away from 7.

I will be doing more water tests this weekend and am wondering if aeration changes are recommended? Part of me says more aeration, the other part says less.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510403 - 08/16/19 06:19 PM Re: DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
No, I wouldn't say that is, "Normal". DO levels will drop by about 10% every three feet due to hydrostatic pressure, but your drop is way more, not to mention your pH.

From what I know about your BOW, I would guess your contrasting pH and DO levels are the result of muddy water. All your photosynthesis is happening within the first foot of water, since there is no sunlight past that point. The plants are using the carbon dioxide, which acts like carbonic acid in water. CO2 removal reduces the acidity of the water so pH increases. Decomposition at the bottom of your water has the opposite effect and is decreasing pH and lowering DO.

I would "think" more aeration but I would like to see more tests prior to suggesting anything.
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#510468 - 08/18/19 09:52 AM Re: DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
THANKS again Joey for attending my thread, I appreciate your time to post. I can see how my muddy waters could produce the earlier results. Yesterday's results are very similar and back up your thoughts...

I have test results from yesterday and I shortened the aeration run time from 8 hours a night to 5 hours Thursday evening (2 days before the tests). This gives 1-1/2 turnovers per day. 3 days ago the pond had a surface film that was light green-ish tan, but the pond has received about 2 inches of rain since and the surface is very reflective and clean.

Time - 10am in BOLD, 5:30pm in GREEN

Ambient Temps - 70 F, 84 F

Secchi Disk Reading - 12", 12"

Water temps - Top to Bottom 78 down to 76 F, Top to Bottom 86 down to 77 F

DO - 4.3ppm upper 6" - 4.4ppm at 24" down , 11ppm upper 6" - 4.8ppm at 24" down

TDS - 60ppm upper 6" - 60ppm at 24" down , 64ppm upper 6" - 61ppm at 24" down m

pH - 7 upper 6" - 7 at 24" down , 8.5 upper 6" - 7 at 24" down

Ammonia - 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down , 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down

Nitrates - 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down , 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down

Phosphates - 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down , 0ppm upper 6" - 0ppm at 24" down


I am hoping the shorter aeration run time helps with clarity and better overall DO levels result, but I fear that suspended clays may be my problem. I collected a jar sample yesterday evening and I'll keep tabs on that. I don't expect it to be any different than the earlier jar test that I posted, but we'll see.

I hesitate to consider clearing the water with Alum until I research enough to consider the effects of my larger watershed (I don't want to have to perform multiple treatments throughout the year). This year the overflow pipe was active, occasionally and regularly, into July. The pond is only a few inches lower than the pipe currently. Last year it dropped 10 inches below at it's worst.

I'm thinking that my pond is not as fertile as I have always though, maybe just muddy and deep bloom challenged, or all the above?
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510480 - 08/18/19 09:16 PM Re: DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
Nothing new and nothing to change my mind that it is being caused by photosynthesis. Your TDS, Total Dissolved Solids, what are you measuring that with? That reading befuddles me, it's not what I would expect.
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#510493 - 08/19/19 08:39 AM Re: DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I bought a TDS meter from amazon (~10-15$). One that was recommended here at PB. TDS has ranged from 51 to 64 ppm since I started testing the waters about 1-1/2 months ago.

What seems odd?

I was surprised to find my well water to be higher than the pond water (211 compared to 51 ppm), but I don't really understand the details regarding TDS.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510605 - 08/21/19 04:55 PM Re: DO and pH change in the upper 2 feet [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
TDS is just that Total DISSOLVED Solids, "dissolved" being the operative word. It is the sum of all dissolved charged ions in water, like minerals, salt, nitrites, nitrates, ammonia, etc.

TDS doesn't tell you much without all your other readings. You have Xppm of TDS but what is X? A TDS meter won't tell you that but your other readings do lend some insight.

Since you have such a low TDS and 0 nitrates, ammonia and or phosphates,it only stands to reason, you have low TDS. I expected higher since you have a lot of fish and do feed them and your watershed.

The good news is, your watershed isn't "polluted". The bad news is, your water isn't very fertile.
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#510635 - 08/22/19 11:28 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Hmmmm! I have always assumed a fertile pond due to the muddiness and the fact that it has at least one obnoxiously green bloom every year and has had a couple floaty scum explosions this year.

Can nutrients come into the pond with a heavy rain flush (from the cattle pastures) that causes a wild bloom which sucks the nutrients back out in a few weeks?

Then the pond goes back to being muddy. Whether the pond is experiencing a bloom or is just muddy, both scenarios are discouraging and their does not seem to be a happy in-between.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#510654 - 08/22/19 06:12 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Joey Quarry Offline


Registered: 11/04/17
Posts: 160
Loc: Wisconsin
Your guess is as good as mine. Possible? Probable? I honestly don't know. I would guess the next step is to find out what the suspended particles are that make your water muddy. It could be a natural imbalance of limited minerals/nutrients? To correct the balance, nature moves to larger particulate that doesn't readily dissolve.

I think you have reached the apex of my insight into your issue?

Maybe pour some of your water through a coffee filter and find out what the suspended particles are? Then it might be possible to trace the source or the issue?
_________________________
2.5 acres, 87' Deep, Previously a Quarry

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#510993 - 08/31/19 10:50 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I'm posting to keep the log up to date with yesterday's water tests. I can't say that there is much to talk about other than yesterday's rain runoff was tested and the DO levels in that runoff were higher than the actual pond water. I half expected that, but it's good to have the evidence.

Tests were conducted at 5:30 pm with the overflow pipe in action and water coming into the pond. We had several inches of rain over the previous days (over 6").

Water temps coming in - 69,
Pond temps - 72 down to 71,
outflow - 71

DO of inflow - 7ppm
DO of pond 12" down from surface - 5ppm

secchi - 11"

pH of inflow and pond water - 7

Ammonia, Nitrates, and Phosphates for inflow and pond waters were all ZERO.

My farmer of the watershed only fertilizes in the spring, so I will be interested in inflow tests next spring after application, but for right now...All's "right as rain".
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#511179 - 09/05/19 12:19 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
This post may be a bit premature, but my water clarity has improved from 11" secchi to 18" since my last post. The water has been brown/tan looking most of the season and now has more green to it plus deeper visibility. The diffusers were raised to about 3 foot off the bottom earlier this year (from 18") with no improvements, but I have removed 150 crawdads between 4 and 5" long in the last 2 weeks. Coincidence?...hard telling just yet, but I'm glad for it. I look forward to running water tests this weekend and keeping an eye on clarity.

Oddly enough, my trap with 1/2" mesh only gathers these large craws...no juveniles. I stocked alot (200) of 1-2" craws prior to stocking the gamefish, another 100 the same year as stocking and believe that they grew out ahead the fish which kept them from becoming snacks. It is probable that they really contributed to my muddy waters and a lack of vegetation. Hopefully, my efforts to manage the situation shows good results. The HSB have also been showing up at meal time too since the water has cleared up some.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#511194 - 09/05/19 04:44 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Danbob Offline


Registered: 08/12/19
Posts: 18
Loc: tx
This has been an excellent read for a newbie. Love the analysis. So do you think the overfeeding was causing some of the "oil slick" scum? And why are the crawfish causing dirty water? Finally, when is the crawfish boil?

Thanks,

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#511196 - 09/05/19 05:59 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Danbob]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Originally Posted By: Danbob
do you think the overfeeding was causing some of the "oil slick" scum? And why are the crawfish causing dirty water? Finally, when is the crawfish boil? Thanks,


I not really sure that I was ever overfeeding...if so, not by much. I'm really new at this too so, keep that in mind. My suspicions revolve around the following, possibly small, contributing factors...

1.) Slight overfeeding. EDIT: Even if I was overfeeding the fish, the crawdads would be cleaning up anything left over and still be hungry. Feeding rarely exceeded 1/4 pound of food per day.
2.) The muddy waters.
3.) The aeration system, early on, was run as often as possible so long as water temps stayed below 80/85. I think, maybe, the frequent turnovers keep any potential blooms from running a good course.

What I mean is, a bloom would start in the upper foot or so during the day, the aeration system would mix it in over night, most the bloom would get knocked back (killed off) considerably by being pushed down in the water column where no light was present and have to start over the next day. This might have caused a build up of dead blooms that floated to the top where something could use it and thrive, producing scum. I have no science to back this up, just my mind wondering off with some sense of logic. None of my water tests showed any substantial nutrients that I could see, but some serious junk was produced from something.

As far as the crawdads...they travel constantly looking for food, scrounging around on the bottom, stirring up the silt at ground level...then the aeration system would move it throughout the water column. Crawdads are said to do most of their scrounging at night...when my aeration system is usually running.

That's my loose theory, hopefully my water continues to clear up to the 20-24" mark. Can't wait to get home to check on today's changes.

No boil in the near future as the crawdads have been donated to help other pond meisters get their ponds seeded.

Thanks for the encouragement Danbob...stay tuned.


Edited by Quarter Acre (09/06/19 07:50 AM)
Edit Reason: see item #1 for edit
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#511212 - 09/06/19 08:02 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Water clarity last night was 20" Secchi. The water has had a slight light greenish film on the surface for a few days, but the water column is still clearing up in general. In the past, some wind action or rain will cause this to disappear for a few days. Feeding last night was decent, but not quite as enthusiastic as the night before.

Still premature, but right now, I am hanging my hat on the removal of some craws causing the water to clear. Other factors that I have noticed are a 5 degree drop in water temps over the last week or two, a recent heavy inflow of water (which normally muddies things up), and the water hyacinths are looking a lot better and putting on some size. I don't see any correlation with these changes, but just stating for the record in case someone has some other theory to offer.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#511217 - 09/06/19 10:22 AM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
roundy Offline


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 265
Loc: Central Illinois
If you removed 150 craws, that's about one for every 72 square feet average. Assuming your pond is about a 1/4 acre, though the actual bottom area would be larger due to bowl shape.

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#511237 - 09/06/19 03:12 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
Rondy, good point...As impossible as it is to figure out how many are (or were) in the pond...when I was using a 7' diameter throw net, I would get a craw ever other throw no matter where it was thrown in the pond. That's about one every 72 sq feet.

I will put the trap out again this weekend to sample what's left, but will not cull any more just yet. I'm trying to ride the line between clearing the water some, but not so much as to cause FA issues, AND removing the proper amount of craws, but leaving enough to add to the forage base.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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#511266 - 09/07/19 08:57 PM Re: Water Chemistry Log by QA [Re: Quarter Acre]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1626
Loc: West Central Missouri
I caught 33 crawdads overnight Friday night. This tells me I still have a strong population, but the water clarity is still improving.

Today's readings (Aeration has been running 3am to 8am)...

Time - 8am in BOLD , 1pm in RED, 6:30pm in GREEN

Ambient Temps - 64 F, 75 F, 84 F

Secchi Disk Reading - 21", 23", 23"

Water temps - Top to Bottom 73 F, Bottom 72 F - Top 82 F, Bottom 72 F - Top 81

DO - 4.8 ppm from surface down to 3', 7.5 ppm @ surface, 5.5 ppm - 12" down, 4.9 ppm - 24" down, 4.6 ppm - 36" down, 10.5 ppm @ surface, 6.1 ppm - 12" down. 4.7 ppm - 24" down, 4.4 ppm - 36" down

TDS - 45 ppm, 49 ppm, 48 ppm

pH - 6.8 from surface down to 3', 6.8 @ surface, 6.6 - 12" down, 6.4 - 24" down, 6.3 - 36" down, 7.8 @ surface, 7.1 - 12" down, 6.8 - 24" down, 6.7 - 36" down

Ammonia - 0.0 ppm, 0.0, Slightly Over Zero

Nitrates - 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm

Phosphates - 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm, 0.0 ppm

Feeding was decent tonight, few HSB showed themselves at the surface or otherwise, but the HBG fed well.

I don't think there are any strong "take aways" from today's results other than the clarity seems to be helping algae blooms in the upper foot or so of water which really boosts DO levels there. I will continue running the aeration system at the same time (3 to 8 am) for the near future, but may start moving it to run more towards morning daylight hours to assist with keeping warmer temps in the pond as the cooler season approaches.
_________________________
Fish on!,
Noel

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