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#507008 - 06/07/19 11:10 AM Pond drain design
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
During new pond construction could a conventional drainpipe system be set up to eliminate future silting issues? I ask this because I will have a construction drain on a 3 acre pond. What distance/height from the bottom of the pond side of the dam should the drain sit?
Thanks,
Heppy

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#507034 - 06/08/19 01:00 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Right now Im thinking of sloping the pond towards the drain with the construction drain about 3-4 above the bottom of the pond and 4-6 out from the face of the dam using a slide gate. Either that or sloping the pond sides towards the drain and digging a 3-4 deep sump area below the bottom of the drain 4-6 out from the face of the dam using a slide gate. I was thinking that opening the gate after storms would carry away any sediment that was deposited after the runoff extending the life of the pond. A trash rack of some sort would also be used. I really like Rainmans idea of the T on a siphon system with 1/2 and 1 holes applied to a drain on a conventional system. Thoughts?
Thanks!
Heppy

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#507155 - 06/10/19 01:08 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
I found this and thought it would be helpful to others.
https://www.bobluskoutdoors.com/articles/pond-piping-dont-let-just-sit-2017-11-3712

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#507403 - 06/14/19 02:13 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
I have been researching for a while and have yet to find an answer to a question I have in regards to a drawdown pipe. I was wondering if anyone uses a trash rack/debris guard ( I will be using one on the riser pipe) in a conventional system but on the lower pipe that you use to drain down a pond at the bottom of the inside of the pond? If you do use a trash rack/debris guard, what type/ design do you recommend. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Many thanks,
Heppy

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#507409 - 06/14/19 08:11 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Quarter Acre Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 1310
Loc: West Central Missouri
Agri Drain seems to be the best for the money...



I have seen them used horizontally and vertically.
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Fish on!,
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#507417 - 06/14/19 11:32 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Quarter Acre]
roundy Offline


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Illinois
I have several of the yellow cage type drains, vertical and horizontal. They seem to work fine so far in a dry dam and siphon intake placements.
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#507421 - 06/14/19 12:40 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Missouri
When I built my pond, I added a 2" PVC pipe under the dam and into the deepest part of the pond. Its there to let water drain out or possibly water cattle below the pond. Its not going to help with silting. The intake is similar to what this guy did (scroll to bottom): https://www.libertynaturepreserve.com/p40.htm which is a pipe with multiple small holes, surrounded by a large plastic housing filled with rock.

If you want a system that takes the dirty silty water off the bottom (and thus help some with silting), you need a bottom withdrawal system: http://www.georgialandsales.com/pdf/PondSiphonSystem.pdf

edit - I realize now I probably misunderstood when you said pond drain and thus the first section above does not apply.


Edited by Redonthehead (06/14/19 12:55 PM)
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#507427 - 06/14/19 06:12 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
MWB Offline


Registered: 03/10/19
Posts: 28
Loc: North Carolina USA
I am thinking about something like this.


Attachments
Bottom Withdrawl Pond Siphon.jpg (51 downloads)


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#507429 - 06/14/19 08:50 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
I appreciate all the replies. The 10 construction drain was installed today. Quarter acre, I was thinking of using the heavy duty agridrain for the drawdown inlet at the pond bottom. Roundy, thanks for letting me know they work at the siphon inlet. That definitely helps. MWB, thats exactly how my system will be setup with a knife or slide gate valve for periodic drawdown. The pond is surrounded by deciduous trees and I was trying to find the best way to extend the life of the pond removing leaf litter from the bottom. The headwaters of multiple springs feed the pond as well as ground water. Other than periodic draw down are other methods used by pondmeisters on larger bodies of water?
Are there fish that will consume dead leaves and other organic debris to extend the longevity of the pond?
Thanks for all the help!
Heppy

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#507430 - 06/14/19 09:05 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Redonthehead, Sorry I forgot to include you in the previous response. Only because I must have a construction drain did I not use a siphon system originally. I love the concept and figure I can always add one latter if the conventional system doesnt adequately suit my needs.
Thanks!
Heppy

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#507432 - 06/14/19 09:40 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
MWB Offline


Registered: 03/10/19
Posts: 28
Loc: North Carolina USA
Originally Posted By: Heppy
I appreciate all the replies. The 10 construction drain was installed today. Quarter acre, I was thinking of using the heavy duty agridrain for the drawdown inlet at the pond bottom. Roundy, thanks for letting me know they work at the siphon inlet. That definitely helps. MWB, thats exactly how my system will be setup with a knife or slide gate valve for periodic drawdown. The pond is surrounded by deciduous trees and I was trying to find the best way to extend the life of the pond removing leaf litter from the bottom. The headwaters of multiple springs feed the pond as well as ground water. Other than periodic draw down are other methods used by pondmeisters on larger bodies of water?
Are there fish that will consume dead leaves and other organic debris to extend the longevity of the pond?
Thanks for all the help!
Heppy


Heppy,

If you get a chance take some pictures of your system as it is being installed.

Thanks

MWB

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#507433 - 06/14/19 10:10 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Will do MWB. I just have to figure out how to post pictures here.
Heppy

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#507471 - 06/15/19 07:12 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
So Ive been thinking....would the heavy duty agridrain trash guard or a cattle/goat panel about 6-8 foot long 3-4 feet width/height rectangular cube be my best option for the draw down trash rack to avoid issues associated with accumulating debris. The barrel is 10 inches and Im unsure of the size to use for the opening of the grate. Would 6,5,4, or 3 inch openings be correct if I decided to use the cattle/goat panel to fabricate my own?
Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks!
Heppy

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#507488 - 06/16/19 05:55 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4338
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Increased surface area is your friend on a debris guard.

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#507497 - 06/16/19 10:25 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
RAH, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. What size openings on the rectangular cube should I use to allow leaf litter and small debris to pass without clogging the 10 pipe?
Thanks
Heppy

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#507511 - 06/16/19 11:56 AM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Quarter Acre]
YooperMom Offline


Registered: 06/16/19
Posts: 3
Loc: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Could someone please explain what this is a picture of?

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#507513 - 06/16/19 12:38 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Yoppermom,
The yellow trash guard Quarteracre pictured is to allow the passage of water and small debris through the pipe and to stop larger debris from potentially clogging the pipe. I hope that explanation helps.
Heppy

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#507632 - 06/17/19 05:59 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Glad I called Keith! He said the Valterra knife gate at 15 feet deep would probably fail in my pond and recommended the 8 DS shear gate. The barrel will be reduced from 10 to 8 at the shear gate Im not really concerned about the gate rusting shut that is epoxy coated because the pond is surrounded by woods and will be opened a few times a year to reduce the amount of accumulating debris. Next I want to fabricate a triangular guard from cattle panels to keep larger stuff from clogging when I draw down the pond. I hope this information helps!
Heppy

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#507902 - 06/21/19 03:39 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Update! I went to pickup the shear gate from a local plumbing supply house. After much discussion it was decided that the 10 barrel should be reduced to a 8 Knife gate valve positioned above the bottom of the pond to prevent silt/debris buildup from stopping closure of the knife. That was the initial concern for the possible failure. I will position the bottom drain 3-4 above the pond bottom with a triangular debris guard to open and close it a couple times a year reducing debris buildup. For the triangular debris guard I am thinking of fabricating the 4x16 foot sheep/goat panels from Tractor Supply. The 4 gauge panel has 4 openings and can be cut with bolt cutters. Much better plan???
Thanks!
Heppy

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#507903 - 06/21/19 04:00 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Missouri
You might ask the mfg of the gate how many pounds of force it will take to open it when its 15' foot deep. Pulling 100? lbs while in a flimsy jon boat may be tricky.

How will you protect the 15' rod that sticks up to the surface?
_________________________

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#507908 - 06/21/19 04:30 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Redonthehead,
Reading older posts here I thought I saw where water pressure was only about 1/2 lb of pressure per foot of depth? There are quite a few people on this forum who have the same knife gate valve. How is it working for those who have it? As far as protection for the 15 rod Im open to ideas. It will be 1 1/4 pvc. All suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks!
Heppy

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#507911 - 06/21/19 05:09 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Redonthehead Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 232
Loc: Missouri
Yes, but that pressure acts against that plate you are trying to slide upwards.

1/2 psi * 15 = 7.5 psi.

Area of a circle is pi * radius squared, so the 8 inch circle is 3.1415 * 4 *4 = 50 square inches.

7.5 psi * 50 = 375 pounds pushing against the plate, making it harder to slide the gate upwards. Perhaps it take 100 pounds? I have no idea but you might ask.

That's all assuming its a gate you pull up on to open.
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#507928 - 06/21/19 07:36 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
Redonthehead,
Correct its a gate I pull up on to open.
Thanks,
Heppy


Edited by Heppy (06/21/19 10:31 PM)

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#508110 - 06/25/19 12:00 PM Re: Pond drain design [Re: Heppy]
Heppy Offline


Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 96
Loc: South Central, Virginia
What height from the pond bottom should a pond drain be located? I am also wondering if I should fabricate a triangular debris guard from 4x16 foot sheep/goat panels from Tractor Supply. The 4 gauge panel has 4 openings and can be cut with bolt cutters. All input much appreciated!
Thanks!
Heppy

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