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#505630 - 05/09/19 11:32 PM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
I used my fine mesh and caught loads of 3/8"-3/4" FHM. I put about 50 a night in, only a few left by morning.
I have only 1 I fin clipped for re-measurement-and haven't disturbed them yet but they are very obviously growing.
I'm quite impressed with their aggressive feeding habits-this is a first for me to observe YP. They seem similar to SMB in their stalking nature.
As for growth, I'm only speculating here but I've tried to gage the fin clipped fish and it was 69mm and it sure looks to be close to 3.5" (87-88mm)in 11 days?? 1.6mm/day but that's a guess-4-5mm would change that back to a more common 1 to 1.2 per day per Cody growth rate. They aren't having to work for food very hard either-maybe skewed there as well.


Edited by Snipe (05/09/19 11:42 PM)
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#505632 - 05/10/19 12:44 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8251
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Keep it up Kenny you have my full attention.
Cody Note - Yes good work and reporting. Thanks for the updates.


Edited by Bill Cody (05/10/19 12:11 PM)
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#505949 - 05/15/19 11:04 PM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
Ok, netted the fin clipped perch tonight.
107mm
69 to 107 in 17 days figures out to 2.235mm per day.
Not very scientific in the aquarium surrounded by 100's of FHM, but the numbers are what they are. Question I have is "can this be duplicated in the wild"..
I may have my answer to that in maybe 10 days. I'd like to get it about 5" to get it to a size it's reasonable to find the otoliths..
EDIT: I left an important part of this out.. I have kept my water temp at 71 degs from the night I put all 6 in, so THAT growth rate of 2.235 is below what I believe to be optimum growing temp, please correct me if wrong here.


Edited by Snipe (05/15/19 11:07 PM)
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#507402 - 06/14/19 01:38 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
Fin clipped perch pulled, measured 143mm (close to 5-5/8")
Growth of Perch in aquarium calculated out to 1.94mm/day which considering being in aquarium with 100's of FHM I don't believe this to be anything "super-natural" and I'm not sure it could ever be duplicated in the wild. I have been trying to purposely trap and catch small perch from the pond and I have actually caught well over 100 now-most are in the 4.5" range, some slightly smaller and larger.
I managed to get both otoliths pulled in 1 piece without breaking and with the size (never attempted a walleye this small)I'm a bit surprised I found both. I did this a couple of days ago and generally we dry them for 4-6 days then drop them in epoxy cups which I will be doing Saturday and after a few days they will be sawed in half and sent for verification.
In my fishing/trapping efforts the last 12-14 days, I've found several unexpected surprises that prove to me #1, "It can happen to anyone", and #2, sometimes there "is" no answer..
First surprise was a 4-1/2" GSF...go figure.
Second surprise was a 13-1/2" BCP. Not sure if 1 or 2 applies to any of this.
I have been slightly disappointed in the fact that fishing with high-end, finesse methods that I have not caught a SMB on FHM, GSH or Worms. I've caught several of the elusive RES, some beautiful males and females, and about every size of Perch I had hoped to see this early (within 1 yr of stocking).
I should have an answer on perch age within a couple of weeks, I'll report here.
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#507406 - 06/14/19 08:04 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 6056
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Snipe,

Very interesting thread! How accurate is otolith aging?
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#507416 - 06/14/19 11:19 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
Realistically, they claim 24hrs one way or the other. We get them back in approx. days since hatch. So far since using this method on the same lake we pull eggs from, I don't believe we've ever had anything outside of 30-35 days estimation. That's figuring an average spawn date of March 24 peak, so nothing more than 30 days before of after that date in many years.
In this case, I'll be looking to hear back on an annular ring, if present, so we know if they were late year hatch after stocking or early this year. If they come back with a hatch date more than 30 days earlier than I stocked then good chance I had some small fry in that I did not see.
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#508082 - 06/25/19 12:07 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
Got a phone call today regarding otoliths..
First of all, annular ring is present.
2 techs each with an otolith, one says approx. 255 days, the other says 252 days.
Calculates out to around October 1st.
I was hoping to see no annular ring but maybe it's even stranger to have a fall hatch. I have NO experience with YP and I have NO data available that says this has ever happened with walleye but we aren't (I have never) pulling otolith from WAE in a pond.
One thing about using otolith that is nice is you have 2, and 2 sides of each to verify so you can't change it to be what it's not.
I hope someone has an understanding of this as the bio's I work with are almost in disbelief and 2 of them frequent this site and have asked if someone has an explanation, their ears are open.
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#508085 - 06/25/19 01:13 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8251
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Dude....what the? Calling Dr. Perca!
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#508087 - 06/25/19 01:36 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
I notified the Doc, TJ, We'll see what he has to say.
And.. If DJ and LL are watching, pay attention!


Edited by Snipe (06/25/19 01:39 AM)
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#508088 - 06/25/19 01:55 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8251
Loc: Lincoln, NE
A few seasons ago I noted RES spawning in October around my dock - until then I'd never heard reports of RES multiple, or late season, spawning.

Perch species are early Spring spawners, I've never read anything to dispute this. This evidence suggests otherwise...I'm intrigued!
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#508089 - 06/25/19 02:30 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Snipe Offline


Registered: 10/26/18
Posts: 761
Loc: NW Kansas
I can understand the possibility of 1-2 females having the urge to fill a gap. Something has to trigger that. It also has to simultaneously trigger the males to the same condition.
In WAE, I've seen at least 2 instances where an unbalanced population causes a misfire on a successful spawn. With WAE, the males are the trigger for the female. If males numbers are not sufficiently high enough the females just move off and reabsorb eggs.
I guess where I'm going with this is one has to trigger the other.. what's the mechanism in play here? Is it a function of the male vs. the female???


Edited by Snipe (06/25/19 02:50 AM)
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#508102 - 06/25/19 10:25 AM Re: Young YP..Is this possible??? [Re: Snipe]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 13043
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I have learned to never say never when dealing with natural things. Late or early spawns can probably happen; it is unusual, non-normal but strange things do happen. We caught a large female YP last week with eggs. This fish was likely reabsorbing the eggs. Very late or very early development of eggs and spawn in YP is possible because it is known to happen in other species. Never say Never. There are still lots of things to be learned about the extreme complexity of Mother Nature.


Edited by Bill Cody (06/25/19 10:27 AM)
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