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Joined: Oct 2018
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OP
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,248 Likes: 548 |
Hey all, Beings I've dealt with GSH on a very limited basis in the larger lakes I deal with, I find myself a bit perplexed at trying to understand the golden shiner. I noticed while watering some new grass at the pond yesterday afternoon that I was seeing a couple of GSH just slowly swimming at the surface so I made a full walk-around and noted 5 total. On the way around I found 2 dead lodged up in the riprap. Within 2 hours all 5 of the surfacers were dead and slowly floated to shore. Nearly calm for western KS yesterday, 5-7 mph NW wind. Going to take a look here shortly but not understanding if GSH are just super delicate or if I need to be looking into something else. In my experience fish just don't die (more than 1) at the same time for no reason. Any insight on GSH habits would be much appreciated. Thanks guys. Additional question.. are GSH touchy about DO levels compared to other species??
Last edited by Snipe; 05/31/19 08:38 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Joined: Oct 2013
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My GS are proving to be very hardy. Reproducing very well with I think one, that I’ve found floating. I think some are at the very limit of what my SMB can eat. So we routinely have caught larger GS on worms when fishing for YP. I’m sure glad I stocked them as my FHM have disappeared.
9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep. RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these. I think that's about all I should put in my little pond. Otter attack in 2023
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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How big were the GSH that died?
Also, it may be important to differentiate between the 'Golden Shiner' and the 'Golden Shriner.' (h/t to Theo Gallus)
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Joined: Oct 2018
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OP
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,248 Likes: 548 |
Ranged in size from 3.5-5.5” These are GSH I stocked in November from Anderson minnow farm. Haven’t seen a dead one since stocking , had the usual handful of floaters a day or two after stocking and haven’t seen even a sick one until yesterday. I’ve looked in one of my AFS books and I don’t find golden “Shriner”.. never heard of it and don’t know what it is.
Last edited by Snipe; 06/01/19 12:34 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2016
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Snipe - Here's a school in their natural habitat.
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Joined: Oct 2018
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I guess I probably had that coming... With that being said, would anyone venture a guess on the reason for the SHINER to be having issues?? Nothing else has surfaced of the other species present, no pipping at sunrise, so no low DO issues likely.
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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SRAC Publication No. 120 Common Farm-Raised Baitfish
Golden shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas) A thin, deep-bodied fish with a small, triangular head and large, loose, reflective scales, the golden shiner is a flashy, attractive baitfish. The mouth is small and turned up, and the tail deeply forked. From the side, golden shiners are silver or sometimes golden; from above they are dark greenish brown. Young fish often have a dark, horizontal stripe along the midline, running the length of the body. The sexes can be distinguished when fish are in breeding colors. Males develop a fine, sandpapery texture on the lower body, and the lower abdomen and vent area may have a dusky color. The abdomen of the female (and some males) remains smooth and white. The pectoral and pelvic fins of the male become bright gold, while those of the female are either clear or have gold on the outer edge only. It is easy to obtain milt from ripe males with gentle pressure to the lower abdomen. Many females are larger than males by the spring of the first year, as they begin to reach sexual maturity. Golden shiners are native to or have been introduced into much of the continental United States. They have been used widely as a baitfish since the 1940s. Golden shiners eat a wide variety of natural foods and readily accept prepared fish feeds. Zooplankton, insects and algae (including filamentous algae) make up most of their diet. Larval golden shiners (fry) feed on small zooplankton and algae either in the water or attached to underwater surfaces. Golden shiners spawn in the spring when water temperatures rise above 68 oF (20 oC). They quit spawning when temperatures exceed 81 oF (27 oC). Once spawning begins, fish will continue to spawn even when temperatures drop below 68 oF. Golden shiners spawn frequently, attaching their adhesive eggs to aquatic vegetation or spawning mats. No care is given to the young. Eggs are about 4/100ths of an inch (1 mm) in diameter and hatch in 3 to 4 days, depending on water temperature.
From one study
"The dissolved oxygen content of warm water fish habitats shall be not less than 5 ppm during at least 16 h of any 24-h period. It may be less than 5 ppm for a period not to exceed 8 h within any 24-5 period, but at no time shall the oxygen content be less than 3 ppm. To sustain a coarse fish population dissolved oxygen concentration may be less than 5 ppm for a period of not more than 8 h out of any 24-h period, but at no time shall the concentration be below 2 ppm". l~oore (1942) found that a dissolved oxygen con- centration of 3.5 to 5.0 ppm is very important for the survival of most warm-water fish at day temperatures of i5 ~ to 26 ~ Some investigators, however, have claimed that fishes can live at a lower oxygen level. Tarzwell (1957) found that the smallmouth bass Micropterus dolomieui /ived for some time in 0.4 ppm of oxygen, hut he did not mention for how long. Burdick et al. (i954) re- corded mortality in M. dolomieui after 5 to 9 h at oxygen concentrations of 0.7 to 1.17 ppm and tem- peratures of ii.ii ~ to 22.22 ~ Gardner and King (1922) reported the asp]hyxial level of trout to be iA ppm of dissolved oxygen at 6.5 ~ and 3.4 ppm at 25 ~ Rounsefell and Everhart (1960, pp 40 4i) listed oxygen tolerance limits which are lower than the above- mentioned levels. These include minimum oxygen requirements as low as 0.38 ppm for the largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides, 0.2 to 0.3 ppm for the black bullhead Ictalurus melas and below 0.2 ppm for the golden shiner Notemigonus crysoleucas.
Last edited by ewest; 06/03/19 12:58 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Thank you ewest, appreciate you digging that up. 7 dead on 1 day, nothing since. It was a sunny day as well. Not sure what that was about. Strange..
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 897 Likes: 201 |
With a pond that is currently filling up with the abundant rain we been having I stocked the pond with bait fish, GS FHM BG RES, also earlier had added a couple boxes of GS fry from anderson minnow farm, the fry seemed to be extremely lively and soon found them spread in all quadrants of the pond, about 8 acres at this point, growing fast, some of them pretty much an inch long or better in less then a month, but I have seen quite a bit of fry dead and floating at some of the edges on the down wind side, the rest seem to be extremely lively and doing good, not sure if I should be alarmed or not and what would cause that, and whether it will stop or continue on, obviously have quite a bit of money involved at this point. also got tons of new fry around the edges from possibly the other species that I stocked for that reason, which means things are somewhat going as planned but a little worried about the dying ones, any thoughts, I have not done any tests on the water, but its all rain water that started collecting in mid Feb, around 25' in spots. I have a 4" drain in the bottom of the pond, and if I open it the water that drains has sort of a septic smell, not sure if that might be normal or not. Thanks in advance
Last edited by gehajake; 06/04/19 02:19 PM.
All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Upon further inspection I don't think it was the GS fry that was floating but rather some other species because when I walk around the whole pond all the original GS fry seem to be an inch or better long and doing great, gazillions of them. and the dead ones were only about 1/2" in length, and I am not seeing any floating anymore so it may have been a false alarm. Thanks
All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
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Joined: Oct 2018
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OP
Joined: Oct 2018
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Fry are extremely sensitive to temp and weather changes. A sharp drop in water temp can kill FHM fry.
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 897 Likes: 201
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Joined: Dec 2018
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Thanks for the input Snipe, that may well have been it, we had several really warm days that warmed the water up and then a cool 1 1/4" rain that probably dropped the surface temp a good bit. And there were about 60 lbs of FHM put in there for reproduction purposes. Thanks again!
Last edited by gehajake; 06/05/19 06:26 AM.
All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Extremely high mortality rates are common in fry. Many die from starvation.
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Joined: Oct 2018
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ewest brings up an excellent point, and very often normal part of the revolving ecosystem. Sometimes we assume everything is perfect and everything should live, when in reality, water quality, stage of bloom and forage is not always prime and available. Simply put, some natural mortality is normal, sometimes needed and overlooked. In my case, seeing what ended up being just 7 adults moving at the surface, then dying within a few hours, worried me. Still not sure why but nothing noted since.
Last edited by Snipe; 06/05/19 06:06 PM.
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