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RAH #506118 05/18/19 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: RAH
Isn't 2,4-D used right in ponds? DO numbers should help. Hot day


Depends on the formulation, some formulations are toxic to fish, if I found the right label the one they sprayed is toxic to fish. A one - two punch, toxicity and a DO sag, and it may volatilize during hot weather.

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld2DI004.pdf


Last edited by Shorty; 05/18/19 10:13 AM.


jwetovick #506119 05/18/19 08:05 AM
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The running count since 5 PM last night for dead fish:

58 6-7" SMB (a total of 81 were stocked last November.)
557 (5" average) RES
117 large GSH
9 FHM
6 BF tadpoles.

This mornings 7:30 AM count was an additional 25 SMB, 231 RES, 3 tadpoles.

Last edited by Shorty; 05/18/19 08:11 AM.


jwetovick #506120 05/18/19 08:23 AM
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Any idea on how long it will take the 2 4 D to dissipate in the pond making it safe to restock?

Last edited by Bill D.; 05/18/19 08:24 AM.

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Bill D. #506121 05/18/19 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Any idea on how long it will take the 2 4 D to dissipate in the pond making it safe to restock?


Good question, I will need to ask but here is what Wiki says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic_acid

Quote:
In aerobic aquatic environments, the half life is 15 days, while in anaerobic aquatic environments,[clarification needed] 2,4-D was moderately persistent to persistent (half life of = 41 to 333 days). 2,4-D has been detected in streams and shallow groundwater at low concentrations, in both rural and urban areas. Breakdown is pH dependent.[30] Some ester forms are highly toxic to fish and other aquatic life.



jwetovick #506122 05/18/19 09:28 AM
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Depends on type of 2-4-d used but esters fume under hot conditions and Crystalize in microscopic size and float in the air. 2-4-D can and will kill grass in this form.

jwetovick #506123 05/18/19 10:16 AM
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The running count since 5 PM last night for dead fish:

60 6-7" SMB (a total of 81 were stocked last November.)
575 (5" average, some larger, some smaller) RES
120 large GSH (5-9")
12 FHM
7 BF tadpoles.




jwetovick #506126 05/18/19 11:08 AM
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I don't have anything more to offer than a heart felt "I'm very sorry for your troubles". I hate to see any of the PB family have this stuff happen.


"Politics": derived from 'poly' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
jwetovick #506129 05/18/19 11:24 AM
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I'm pretty sure the formulation used around my pond is the toxic to fish type, sales rep called it 2,4-D "6 lb.". Directly quoted from the PDF label I posted at the top of this page.

Quote:
This pesticide may be toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply directly to water, to areas where surface water is present, or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Drift and runoff may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in water adjacent to treated areas. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment wash waters or rinsate.


Quote:
Do not apply at wind speeds greater than 15 mph. Only apply this product if the wind direction favors on-target deposition and there are not sensitive areas (including, but not limited to, residential areas, bodies of water, known habitat for nontarget species, nontarget crops) within 250 feet downwind. If applying a medium spray, leave one swath unsprayed at the downwind edge of the treated field


Quote:
2, 4-D esters may volatilize during conditions of low humidity and high temperatures. Do not apply during conditions of low humidity and high temperatures.


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Last edited by Shorty; 05/18/19 12:13 PM.


jwetovick #506130 05/18/19 11:49 AM
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Oh my gosh! This makes me sick Shorty. So sad to see this. The guy that farms my fields works for the local fertilizer dealer. They do a lot of spraying. He sprayed this last Tuesday because he wanted to plant this week, and the weeds were already taking over. I haven’t been back up since. Supposed to get hard rains today and tonight.

I sure hope there’s some strong compensation for you, but you’ll still be starting over, I guess.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023
jwetovick #506131 05/18/19 12:16 PM
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Steve I can send an invoice from Hudland Management to restock....you can't believe the market these days on RES, SMB, and GSH - through the roof! wink


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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jwetovick #506132 05/18/19 12:41 PM
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The running count since 5 PM last night for dead fish:

61 6-7" SMB (a total of 81 were stocked last November.)
585 (5" average, some larger, some smaller) RES
122 large GSH (5-9")
12 FHM
7 BF tadpoles.

The number of new floaters appearing every hour has slowed down quite a bit.



jwetovick #506133 05/18/19 04:25 PM
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What size is the affected pond, Shorty?

roundy #506136 05/18/19 06:10 PM
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1/4 acre



jwetovick #506141 05/18/19 10:17 PM
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I do have a few survivors, 10 RES in this seine survey.


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jwetovick #506142 05/19/19 06:06 AM
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Wow! Really sorry to hear about your fish kill. Some people just don't understand the feelings we have for our fish. I hope your neighbor is understanding and pony's up for a few grand.


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
jwetovick #506145 05/19/19 09:10 AM
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If it was a contract applicator, might be an insurance claim.

RAH #506149 05/19/19 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: RAH
Isn't 2,4-D used right in ponds? DO numbers should help. Hot day

RAH, it is. I've used Navigate for several years, and had zero fish issues.

Roundup and Rodeo are always compared, but differing kinds of 2,4-D never entered my mind.


AL

TGW1 #506152 05/19/19 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: TGW1
Some people just don't understand the feelings we have for our fish.

So true Tracy....I rarely kill anything...when we find a cricket at our office I'll take it outside and let it go in the bushes...but if birds or otters start killing my fish...hey those fish are like our kids. It's WAR baby!



Fishing has never been about the fish....

FireIsHot #506153 05/19/19 12:19 PM
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I too was unaware that different forms of 2,4-D affected fish differently, but have never used 2,4-D near water. I also read and follow labels on each product we buy.

Last edited by RAH; 05/20/19 05:20 AM.
jwetovick #506154 05/19/19 12:33 PM
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Total count for dead fish:

70 SMB 6-7" (a total of 81 4-6" were stocked November 11th, 2018. Number includes two 17-1/2"+ SMB)
656 RES (4-5" average, some larger, some smaller)
151 GSH (5-9")
15 FHM
16 BF tadpoles.
1 Yellow Perch (10")

909 Total

No new dead fish since Wednesday evening.

RIP Big Girl



Attached Images
IMG_1072.jpg
Last edited by Shorty; 05/24/19 12:06 PM.


Shorty #506159 05/19/19 07:26 PM
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That's awful, Shorty. Really sorry that this happened.

After Pops retired from scratching dirt he spent about 15 years running spray rigs for MFA. He killed two ponds the first year
he ran the spray rig. After that he refused to spray any field that had one if the wind was blowing.

jwetovick #506181 05/20/19 09:42 AM
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Start keeping a record of your time spent collecting and counting.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #506187 05/20/19 01:55 PM
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I have been. The good news is the number of new floaters I am finding has slowed way down, bad news is the GB heron is working on cleaning up dead fish while I am at work today.



jwetovick #506216 05/21/19 05:12 AM
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Get a game cam pic of the heron eating the fish. That is further potential collateral damage.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
jwetovick #506421 05/24/19 08:20 AM
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Any update on this situation as far as insurance, etc?

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