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#499918 - 12/24/18 06:13 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: John Fitzgerald]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
I did get a bunch but most are newbies. The expensive guy knew what core trenching was. I'm going to wait for the first guy that was going to do it for 5500. It may never get done though since he's always busy. I'm still looking for a used machine though regardless.

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#499920 - 12/24/18 09:02 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2156
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: wannapond0001
I did get a bunch but most are newbies. The expensive guy knew what core trenching was. I'm going to wait for the first guy that was going to do it for 5500. It may never get done though since he's always busy. I'm still looking for a used machine though regardless.


That $5,500 is way high for what shouldn't take more than three days. Even assuming 10 hour days, that's $183 dollars per hour. Most around here are about $90 per hour for a medium dozer about the size of a Cat D5 or Case 650.
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#499928 - 12/25/18 07:18 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2741
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I have to agree John. Around here it's about 15,000 per acre. But it could cost a little more for a smaller pond. After all it has to be worth his while to move equipment and time. If one can not make any money at pond building them I would stay at the house. $5,500 is not that much money these days when you consider moving in and out cost along with only a couple of days work. And since it is in Ohio, maybe things just cost more there.
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#499930 - 12/25/18 08:03 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5843
Loc: Boone County Illinois
So many variables. If the water table is high, digging sludge is way more expensive than digging dry dirt. They had to move the stuff from my pond a minimum of three times to get it where I wanted it, dried out and to grade. Also, in Illinois anyway, it can cost the contractor many hundreds of dollars just for road permits to move/remove his equipment to/from the site.
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#499934 - 12/25/18 09:13 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Bill D.]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
Water table is not an issue. i'm on a hill. The first guy that was going did get a permit to move his dozer, and that same day he mauled his hand so no pond for me. For 9k I'd want at least 1/2 acre.

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#499936 - 12/25/18 09:18 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: John Fitzgerald]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
You're right he did say 3 days, but that's the lowest price around here. He didn't even want cash ahead of time. Everyone else wanted 1/3rd down or pay their rental fees. Even the guy that owns his own equipment wanted 9k. It's got a slope to it, it's minimal excavation time. It's not like they'd dig out dirt on flat ground and move it offsite. All dirt will be used for the dam.

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#499947 - 12/25/18 11:46 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
OMG holy crap. I was texting another guy about a pond and he said you're gonna want to rent a d8 and my budget should be 10 to 20k. I think he's high.

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#499952 - 12/25/18 05:47 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2156
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I think costs here in Arkansas for dirt work must be about half the costs in Ohio. I wonder why?
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#499953 - 12/25/18 06:09 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: John Fitzgerald]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
It must be. I saw a Cat D6D, with a 90% undercarriage for 26k. Supposedly 90... looks tempting

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#499966 - 12/26/18 11:37 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
tubguy Offline


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 149
Loc: Southern Indiana
WP, I had pond built about four years ago and looked at hiring an excavation company, buying equipment, or renting equipment and doing the work myself.I received bids from four excavation companies. Number 1 was a small independent contractor that was very knowledgeable about building ponds and lakes ( he had worked for the State DNR building ponds) but was going to have to rent some larger equipment and hire some help to do the work I needed.He did good work but I had talked to one guy who waiting over a year to have his pond dug and finally found another contractor. Contractor number 2 was a local well known company with a few employees and good references but he was so busy working in some new housing additions that he really did not seem interested in moving his equipment to build my pond. He said that my 3 acre pond would be done start to finish in 6 days.His bid was a little higher than the other three and I got the feeling if my job went past the six day mark the cost would be higher.He also mentioned that he would probably not be there to oversee the work.Contractor number 3 was a father-son outfit which was my cheapest bid by about 6k. They argued most of the time while they were here giving an estimate. The father was trying to talk me into reducing the size of the pond. He said it had been a few months since their largest dozer had been started and said he would leave the large dozer at my pondsite until the his next large job to cut down on hauling costs.In addition to these red flags, the father took a phone call from another potential customer and talked for 15 minutes during my estimate.Needless to say, I was ready for them to leave.Contractor number 4 was another larger company that specialized in building landfill cells and watershed projects. The owner asked me if I wanted "a bid" or "an estimate". I asked what was the difference. He said that an estimate could always cost more ,but a bid would be higher but would not go a dime over!
I went with contractor number 4.He owned all his own equipment and had enough equipment that he was able use my job as fill-in work (his shop is only 5 miles from here). Which worked out good for both of us.They usually left one or two pieces of equipment here and worked on the pond when the weather and their schedule allowed.
The first day when they delivered an 84000lb excavator with 5ft bucket and filled it with 115 gallon diesel fuel @ $4 a gallon I was glad I had not tried to build the pond myself.
My pond from start to final grade took about 13 months time. My ground was wetter than they ever imaged. The first operator came real close to burying the large excavator but luckily they always had other equipment there to help get equipment unstuck. I cant imagine what it would cost to have an outside company come in to remove a piece of rental equipment out of the quagmire.The company at times had a D6 dozer, a brand new D6LGP dozer, a 42000 lb excavator, a 84000 lb excavator,a skid steer,a 350hp tractor with a dirt pan,and a 130hp tractor on site.They had a few breakdowns.First was a $3500 drive motor on the small excavator, second was a busted hydraulic hose in an immovable dozer that was frozen to the ground in 15 deg temps which took 3 frigid days to fix, and lastly they had they older d6 dozer which was having electrical issues and required a CAT service tech.
Sorry my post is so long but I just wanted to emphasize that pond building can pose a lot of unexpected obstacles and expense especially with wet ground and using equipment with more than a few operating hours on the meter.
When all is said and done I love my pond and it is one of the best investments I have made. But I am not sure that my contractor made much money building my pond after all the lost man hours working on equipment and paying for repairs.I had some fence rows removed over and above the pond build and his charge rate for the excavator and dozer was 115 per hour each. My total pond build was a around 22k but after you subtract parts,fuel,hauling permits,and labor there probably was not much $$$ left.

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#499969 - 12/26/18 01:04 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
That's quite the story. My pond is gonna be tiny though smile.

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#500005 - 12/27/18 01:23 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Bing Offline
Ambassador
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1622
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
Did you ever buy and read the book that was recommended? Mike Otto’s book Just Add Water”. So far that has been the best cost you have been offered.


Edited by Bing (12/27/18 01:24 PM)
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#500007 - 12/27/18 01:31 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Bing]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
I ordered it yesterday. I found a guy that can operate a dozer, so we shall see. I'll have to instruct him on core trenching.

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#500010 - 12/27/18 02:19 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Bing Offline
Ambassador
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1622
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
If you have to instruct him on how to brick a core trench then you have not found a pond builder.
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#500011 - 12/27/18 02:30 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Bing]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
Pond builder wants 9k for a 1/4 acre. I will take my chances.

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#500019 - 12/27/18 07:53 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Bing Offline
Ambassador
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 1622
Loc: Fayette County Illinois
I hope you get the pond of your dreams.
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#500020 - 12/27/18 09:06 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Bing]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
An acre would be the pond of my dreams. I just don't have the acreage width wise. It's a narrow 4.5 acre. I might do 2 ponds if the first turns out ok.

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#503019 - 03/12/19 07:35 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Magshine Offline


Registered: 01/04/19
Posts: 26
Loc: Illinois
I'm in the process of constructing my own dam. I'm renting a 30k excavator,a d6 and a compactor. Just measured my dam to be 25ft tall and about 100ft long. I'm damming up a ravine. What's your guy's thoughts on a 2:1 slope on water side and 3:1 on the back side. I have great clay material and plenty of it.

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#503039 - 03/13/19 08:24 AM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Magshine]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5426
Loc: SE Kansas
3 to 1 is tricky to mow but doable. 4 to 1 is much more comfortable.

2 to 1 is tough to work and impossible to pack the face, although the lifts building the dam up can be properly compacted so doesnt have to be a big issue.

I personally would want the 3 to one on the water side and at least 3 ro 1 on the dry side with any extra spoils to make it less steep than that if possible. 4 to 1 much better to keep the trees and overgrowth off.

Working a 45 degree slope is no fun. A dozer will barely climb up it, let alone push anything. Get sideways on it and you might end up dead. That complicates further pond management.

Edit: just reread your post. Those steep slopes could be made to work on that small of pond. But 2 to 1 on the inside is going to be much more prone to sloughing off and dam erosion so may be counterproductive in the long run.

Not an expert here. But I do have some practical experience.


Edited by snrub (03/13/19 08:31 AM)
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#503055 - 03/13/19 01:46 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: Magshine]
wannapond0001 Offline


Registered: 12/11/18
Posts: 176
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Magshine
I'm in the process of constructing my own dam. I'm renting a 30k excavator,a d6 and a compactor. Just measured my dam to be 25ft tall and about 100ft long. I'm damming up a ravine. What's your guy's thoughts on a 2:1 slope on water side and 3:1 on the back side. I have great clay material and plenty of it.

He's done with my pond. It took him couple hours to dig mine with just a D6 because due to trash, I can only have a tiny 1/8 or 1/10 acre pond. He said with great clay like mine it didn't need compaction. He was right. No leaks and it's full.

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#503390 - 03/21/19 02:27 PM Re: How long to excavate a 1/4 acre pond with JD 450 [Re: wannapond0001]
Magshine Offline


Registered: 01/04/19
Posts: 26
Loc: Illinois
That's great

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