Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations I'm fillin in that holler!!!!!!!

The pond is still draining.

When it filled up to 3 acres, there was an area bubbling. It was bubbling not violently, but every 5 seconds, maybe 20-30 little bubbles would come up. Now the water level is 1' above this bubbling area. I waded out. The ground felt a bit soft, but there could have been a tree there and top soil pushed over. Does anybody know what bubbling means or the implications it may have? I know there must be air in the ground, but can't figure why it would bubble for a week and a half.

Could be an area of highly porous rock or soil That was slowly exchanging water for air after being submerged. Could be the water warming and releasing dissolved gasses. Could be a bacterial or chemical release of gasses.

Robinson,

What's the prognosis at this point?

Hillbilly, it has continued to fall at a rate of 6 inches a day. I'm hoping it will stabilize soon above the the one acre at the floor which held water in the bottom and I'll be able to find a hole. I've been going out daily and marking, to attempt to discover the point at which it stabilizes. It is within 2 feet of the original waterline or one acre floor which held, which means, it should stabilize within the next 4 days, roughly, assuming, of course, the extra weight did not blow something out at the very bottom of the one acre.

It has 8' of pretty decent dirt at the floor, so it shouldn't blow, but knowing my luck, who knows?

Thanks for asking!!!!!!

She appears to maybe starting to stablize. I witnessed a 3.5 inch loss from 2/5 - 2/6. I will go out in a bit, and check today, to see what I can find out. She's lost roughly 6 ' of water, and went from 3 acres +- to 1.5-2 acres +-.

Robinson,

What type of work was done on the basin itself? Was the vegetation cleared? Top dirt removed?

In the bottom one acre, yes. It holds. In the balance, no, because of cost overuns. Actually they did the eastern half and began concentrating on the dam. They ran up my tab so far, that once they were done with the dam, I ran them off, basically and was not able to afford the western upper half. Maybe I'll have to do so?

If your place is like mine I'd think you might need to. When I had my old small pond worked up a few years ago (It held no water at the time) It started catching water higher than I'd ever seen it in my lifetime, but the water found it's way out in the sides of the basin around some old sycamore trees lining the pond. Over time, the water fell more rapidly after each rain, until a virtual cavern had eroded in the side of the basin down into the limestone bedrock. The water pops out of the ground some 100 yds below the dam, just like it was running in a pipe, circumventing the entire dam.

Not only do I have the karst caverns below, the problem with some clays formed over limestone bedrock (my clay) is that it tends to form in small natural clumps which don't readily seal without compaction. The best way to compact these clays is with a sheepsfoot roller (I know everyone's getting tired of hearing about sheepsfoot) because it works from the bottom of the lift up kneading and packing the clay clumps. This is stuff I've learned from soils people of course, and I've seen this type of soil structure in my own basin. I don't know what your terrain looks like or what equipment you have available, but what I'd do is this. I'd remove all vegetation and topsoil down to 6 inches. I'd go in with a large tractor and disk the subsoil down to 6-8 inches. I'd go back in with a sheepsfoot roller and pack the ... out of it. Then I'd push the top dirt back over it. Since I have a dozer I'm going to cut all the soil in my basin down a couple of feet and pack it back in in 6" lifts with a, you guessed it, sheepsfoot. Granted, mine's not as big as your's. I dont know if your a do-it-yourselfer but you can get a decent, old track loader for around $16,000, keep it a year or two and sell it. Good luck. I'd like to come check it out sometime, when it's too wet to work on my own!

TNHB:

If we ever got tired of hearing about sheepsfoot rollers, well, talk about vibrating sheepsfoot rollers instead.

Robinson,

Any updates you can give us??

The pond has appeared to stabilize, as best I can tell, at around 1.5 acres. It has all types of trees which are pushed over as cover, as well as humps, island penninsulas. Stuff I did w' a small farm tractor while they were building the dam.

Come summer, I will be removing all trees as they are nothing but ground hog cover, not fish cover and burning them. I will be removing all the topsoil on the balance of the pond, down to clay. Then sealing up the ditch that is in the floor with clay. It will all be compacted. This stuff should have been done initially.

I'm still unsure as to whether the water 400' behind the dam was coming from, whether it was going around the dam, or through the dam, and finding a small seam say 300' behind the dam, and shooting over to the wet spot. As mentioned we did pipe a spring though the dam, and the pond has found it. Now I need to seal the pond, so it can't get there. The most likely place it has been going, is the natural ditch that runs right down the middle of the pond floor. We covered and compacted over it, as it is only two feet wide at the dam, and water holds there. Now I think we need to all the way up the hollow.

Robinson- Did You find where the leak was? I hope you can find and patch the leak without any more expence. I have been complaining about no rain here, I can't imagine how bad I would feel if it would not hold water after we finally get some rain. I am pulling for you and wishing I could find some way to help!

Thanks PFF. It is sickening. During construction, the bottom one acre was leaking, smack dab in the bottom, probably around old tree holes allowing the water to go down onto bedrock, which is fractured. Of course there was great clay around, so we put about 30 loads on the bottom acre and bo maged it in. After that, it stuck, never leaking more than 1/4 inch a day. Now, unfortunately , I'll have to move towards the head of the pond, and do the same. I was hoping to get by without doing so.

It's bad to watch one go down. It's bad to think I'll have to wait another year. I'll wait for the dry months, do the work, and hopefully fix it, assuming I can afford it. I don't want to throw good money after bad. The only good news is it seems to be very responsive to compaction. I still don't know exactly where the water is going. May take another big rain.

Thanks for asking.

PS, we've had very little rain here too. We had a two inch rain to wet the soils a bit, and then 5 inches, which put a ton of water in all ponds. 5 inches of rain is rare here.

Keep at it & you'll get it fixed Robinson.

I know it takes money, but you have the knowledge.

If it were mine, I'd force myself to look at it as if I had just aquired the pond & all it needed was fixing.

Wishing you luck also.
Stay positive & keep patients. Good things will come!

I think you're on the right track with your plan to compact the entire basin. With the geology you and I are faced with I don't think tracking down the leak you have now will help for long, the water would just find another path. I know it's generally recommended that people build cores in their dams but I think the best tactic in karst areas is to basically seal or 'line' the entire basin with a compacted blanket of material, whether that means trucking in clay or just compacting what's there. Think of a small pond with a synthetic liner, there would be no need for a core with a rubber liner, because the water would never get to the core in the first place. Same thing when you pack the basin. If the water can't seep into the ground in the first place, it can't find it's way to bedrock, or pipe between the rock and subsoil. I still want to come down and see your pond one weekend. I haven't called yet because it's good dozin weather! Don't give up on it, you'll get there.

No doubt its frustrating for you Robinson but hopefully the sealing of the ditch will solve your problems. Thanks for the update.

Robinson , thanks for the update. Hang in there we are pulling for your success and hope it happens soon.

What ever happened to your pond? Did you get it fixed?

Two years later:


The top soil has been removed and old dry stream channel and all suspicious areas have been sealed with 1-2 foot of red clay from materials taken on site and bo magged/compacted in.

I have been told by the NRCS that they have discovered that their is a large cave within .5 miles from my lake, which spews forth 500 gallons per minute during this drought and empties into a 2 acre lake below. I knew of the lake, but thought it was fed by a smaller spring. The cave's mouth has an elevation is some 60 below the base of my pond, and again, it's some.5 mile away. I have searched it's history. The cave has five channels, and is 20+- wide at the mouth. For those of you who may recall, I had started a thread about witching a 20' wide void or cavern(at the time I thought underground creek) under a sinkhole which lead for several thousand feet getting within 200-300 feet of my pond/lake. It may be one of the 5 cave channels. Whether water is in it is not known, but it is likely that it is, and it is the source of my small spring, which is now on the surface of the pond bottom, rather than disappearing. I hope the clay has separated it, as there is no question that hydrolically the water head is below the lake.

At any rate, the saga goes on. One day, when I get time, I'm going to tell the whole story.

The newly discovered by me cave mouth is within 100 yard or so of being in a straight line with the other sinks.