Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,051
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,407
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
6 members (catscratch, Brandon Larson, Layne, Dave Davidson1, Blestfarmpond, Angler8689), 638 guests, and 166 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
I have a site in east texas that may take several years before I'm able to complete it. I've posted lots of pics. I recently had 8 acres clean up where homesite will be and th top of the hill was very sandy in places. When we destumped stumps,there was select fill only in some areas. The operator then went down near the creek and did this dig test that is in photo. He said it was good gummy gray clay and thought it would make a great dam. Just curious what yalls thoughts are, and what the clay looks like from pics, and the overall thoughts on process and site loction?

Using daftlogc, the outlined area could be close to 7 or 8 acres. Lots of trees would need to come out. It should be pretty deep in some places as well. Fingers crossed that the clay is actually the good stuff!

The creek on the maps actually starts for a natural spring that begins on my property. A .3acre pond was built in 1957 and the spillway is flowing at all times. Just past the dam, there are multiple other springs just flowing out of the hillside.

Attached Images
Screenshot_20180710-175538_Photos.jpg Capture.PNG Screenshot_20180710-193158_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193316_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193240_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193149_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193142_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193131_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-194047_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180710-193221_Gallery.jpg
Last edited by Bajackson16; 07/10/18 07:57 PM.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,025
Likes: 274
D
Moderator
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,025
Likes: 274
The clay is great for a bottom. But, for a dam it needs to be mixed into loam. Bottom line is that sand won’t hold water and pure exposed clay cracks when dry. And, the top will dry out. Have it mixed and be sure to have him do a core trench, also called a key way.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
A
Online Content
A
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
Bjackson, if the creek water is still flowing now during the height of summer, that's a very good sign. I have a similar creek which keeps my BOW from dropping too low during heat & drought.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Yea, I didn't have this property in 2011drought, but apparently from listening to some neighbors, none of the ponds downstream ever dropped much. That dig test hole was dug in early may. The picture was taken 4 weeks later after no rain. I'm assuming the hole filled with water from all the springs in the hillside. Lack of water isn't going to be a problem!

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 28
F
Offline
F
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,596
Likes: 28
Where is this Bethel Creek in east Texas? Anderson County? Near Trinity River?


Dear Alcohol, We had a deal where you would make me funnier, smarter, and a better dancer... I saw the video... We need to talk.
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Rusk County
It turns into Berryhill creek (or something close to that name) about a 1/2 mile downstream.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 491
Likes: 13
M
Offline
M
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 491
Likes: 13
hows the water quality of the lower ponds now? Do they ever get muddy? Your pond is going to assume the role of collecting most of the sediment that currently flows directly to the lower ponds - keep in mind that if you want pretty clear water you'll have to address the sedimentation inflow from the springs/creeks. Removing more trees will increase the sediment if you don't provide some ground cover vegetation. Also be aware of the amount of nutrients in those lower ponds, you'll be taking on the nutrient load as well.

Before installing a dam on the main pond you can address these issues and have a great pond from the get go.


Mat Peirce
1.25 acre southeast Iowa pond
LMB, BG, YP, WE, HSB, RES, BCP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 19
J
Offline
J
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 19
Several years ago, my neighbor built four and seven acre ponds one above the other in a ravine. The only clearing they did was about 1.5 acres or so in the end where the dam is. He let the ponds fill up and drown all the trees and brush. He didn't need to add any structure. The forest was mixed oak/hickory/elm/cedar.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Good info! Thanks guys!

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Consider using a small sediment pond upstream of your inflow to settle out particulates. Some members here have built them to great success but obviously the location-specific details matter quite a bit. Can you find a real pond builder (not just a dirt guy) to help you?

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
T
Offline
T
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By: Bajackson16
Rusk County
It turns into Berryhill creek (or something close to that name) about a 1/2 mile downstream.


I used to hunt not too far from that area, the land we were on was very dusty/sandy and the ponds on the place were always seemed to collect alot of that sediment.

Your pictures look great though, would love to see how it progresses.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Originally Posted By: Bocomo
Consider using a small sediment pond upstream of your inflow to settle out particulates. Some members here have built them to great success but obviously the location-specific details matter quite a bit. Can you find a real pond builder (not just a dirt guy) to help you?


Once I get serious, I plan on getting several quotes, including some from a "real pond builder". My money has been going to other directions this first year. (fencing, gates, cleanup, driveway, etc...)

I'm still in the brainstorming phase at this point! For now, I plan on deer hunting the creek bottom and hopeful one day to catch a bass off the same creek!

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Originally Posted By: TxBrewer
Originally Posted By: Bajackson16
Rusk County
It turns into Berryhill creek (or something close to that name) about a 1/2 mile downstream.


I used to hunt not too far from that area, the land we were on was very dusty/sandy and the ponds on the place were always seemed to collect alot of that sediment.

Your pictures look great though, would love to see how it progresses.


It is really dusty/ sandy on top of the hill. Lots of sugar sand. but down by the creek and one of the hillsides, there happened to be the grey , gummy clay.

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 4
Originally Posted By: Bajackson16
Originally Posted By: Bocomo
Consider using a small sediment pond upstream of your inflow to settle out particulates. Some members here have built them to great success but obviously the location-specific details matter quite a bit. Can you find a real pond builder (not just a dirt guy) to help you?


Once I get serious, I plan on getting several quotes, including some from a "real pond builder". My money has been going to other directions this first year. (fencing, gates, cleanup, driveway, etc...)

I'm still in the brainstorming phase at this point! For now, I plan on deer hunting the creek bottom and hopeful one day to catch a bass off the same creek!


If you're the planning type, buy the "Perfect Pond, Want One?" book from Pond Boss. I have it and it's great info.

https://www.pondboss.com/store?c=8

"Just Add Water" is also supposed to be good but I don't have it myself.

Last edited by Bocomo; 07/11/18 01:26 PM.
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
A
Online Content
A
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,861
Likes: 298
Originally Posted By: Bajackson16
Originally Posted By: TxBrewer
Originally Posted By: Bajackson16
Rusk County
It turns into Berryhill creek (or something close to that name) about a 1/2 mile downstream.


I used to hunt not too far from that area, the land we were on was very dusty/sandy and the ponds on the place were always seemed to collect alot of that sediment.

Your pictures look great though, would love to see how it progresses.


It is really dusty/ sandy on top of the hill. Lots of sugar sand. but down by the creek and one of the hillsides, there happened to be the grey , gummy clay.


I have a red "clay" hill that turned out to be iron oxide mixed with sand. Fortunately, like you, there was clay under the creek!

Last edited by anthropic; 07/11/18 02:35 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 41
H
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 41
I’m in Douglass, so pretty close to you. You won’t have to worry much about shrink/swell clay in Rusk County. We have enough East TX sand mixed in to keep it from drying out and leaving a gapping crack.

Main thing to worry about is adequate emergency spillway width, and do something to carry the spring water so it isn’t going over your emergency spillway constantly. I’m convinced that continuous low-flows over a spillway can be just as dangerous as sporadic high flows. I would advise you to install a pipe to carry the continuous low flows, and keep them off your spillway.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Its a slow process, but I've gotten a little more info on my property after the dig tests in the summer. (see photos above for dig test photos).

With all the vegetation off the trees, I had a friend with a high end drone and topo software fly over my place and put together this topo. I think once we get it staked out, it could possibly be bigger.

The software says that this layout is:
5 surface acres
74.76 acre feet
24,360,621 gallons
embankment=35,000 yards.

For you pond guys, what does all those numbers mean. The only one that makes sense to me is the 5 surface acres? How much dirt is that embankment?

Attached Images
lake.PNG
Last edited by Bajackson16; 02/28/19 03:34 PM.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
If the embankment (Dam) is 35,000 CUBIC yards, that means a LOT of $$$$$ Typical excavation can run between $40 and $200 per cubic yard depending on access and terrain...Per hour rates can run between $125 and $250 per piece of heavy equipment running, but quite a few cubic yards can be moved in an hour by a qualified and experienced operator....either way, it will not be inexpensive. Be sure to check requirements as I am pretty sure nearly 75 acre feet will fall under not only state, but also federal jurisdiction/regulations...EPA and Army Corps of Engineers (ACE). If there is a blue line creek in the USGS topo, offsetting stream remediation will almost certainly be required by the EPA....



Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 110
Likes: 9
B
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 110
Likes: 9
That seems like a lot of dirt. What are the contour intervals? How long is it and how wide do you want the top?

Rainman, Really? $200 dollars per cubic yard of dirt? My concrete guy charges $300 a yard and that includes forming and rebar.


Brad
1.5 acre pond with LMB, BG, BCP, CC, FHM and lots of crayfish, unknown type. .5 acre pond with FHM and GSF. 12 acre irrigation reservoir that I don't know what to do with. New pond, roughly 1.5 acres. Pond Boss Subscriber.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Originally Posted By: Brad346
That seems like a lot of dirt. What are the contour intervals? How long is it and how wide do you want the top?

Rainman, Really? $200 dollars per cubic yard of dirt? My concrete guy charges $300 a yard and that includes forming and rebar.


There is a wide range per cubic yard...$40-$200. If all the dirt needed is in the basin with gentle slopes, you will be in the low range. If sides are steep, dirt has to be dug borrow pits, smooth and landscape the dig, and then wheelbarrow the dirt to the dam, you'll be on the high end.....



Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 33
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 33
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Per hour rates can run between $125 and $250 per piece of heavy equipment running, but quite a few cubic yards can be moved in an hour by a qualified and experienced operator....either way, it will not be inexpensive.


With hours and how it affects the value of machinery, $125/hr is too cheap. It doesn't cover the costs looking long term.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Originally Posted By: jludwig
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Per hour rates can run between $125 and $250 per piece of heavy equipment running, but quite a few cubic yards can be moved in an hour by a qualified and experienced operator....either way, it will not be inexpensive.


With hours and how it affects the value of machinery, $125/hr is too cheap. It doesn't cover the costs looking long term.


Size and capacity of equipment is the main driving factor, along with operator experience and fuel costs, site topography, location, job duration....all sorts of variables. I can get a guy with a 735 cat loader for $125/hr...20 hour minimum



Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
B
OP Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17
Originally Posted By: Rainman
If the embankment (Dam) is 35,000 CUBIC yards, that means a LOT of $$$$$ Typical excavation can run between $40 and $200 per cubic yard depending on access and terrain...Per hour rates can run between $125 and $250 per piece of heavy equipment running, but quite a few cubic yards can be moved in an hour by a qualified and experienced operator....either way, it will not be inexpensive. Be sure to check requirements as I am pretty sure nearly 75 acre feet will fall under not only state, but also federal jurisdiction/regulations...EPA and Army Corps of Engineers (ACE). If there is a blue line creek in the USGS topo, offsetting stream remediation will almost certainly be required by the EPA....


A couple dig tests were done last summer and I have the grey, gummy clay in the two sites that he dug right near the creek and on the sides of proposed dam site. With that amount of dirt, i'm most likely looking at having to haul some in too. I know its going to be expensive. The software used was just an rough sketch estimate. By no means was it someone who builds ponds for a living. He just started playing with the slope / elevation of the dam. Hopefully the majority of the dirt is sitting under the current creek. There is a blue line that shows up on the topo so it is a true creek. It actually begins on my property as a spring. Where it begins, there is a current .3 acre pond that was built in 1956. That's probably a good thing because its catching the initial sediment , etc.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by Rainman - 03/28/24 02:53 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by Mark Dyer - 03/27/24 10:18 PM
Reducing fish biomass
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:17 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/27/24 08:47 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by esshup - 03/26/24 10:00 PM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5